Short or long shaft for our Avon Redcrest

[VicS]

Barely fatter tubes, Neil...I 'accidentally' bought a Redcrest and a Redstart on the same day on eBay two years ago, and they're almost indistinguishable.

I used my Tohatsu 3.5 short-shaft on the Redcrest a lot last summer. Even being gentle on the throttle, the propeller was doing its best to twist the leg forward under the boat. If the shaft was five inches longer, that effect would be worse.

Fatter, as Neil points out, and a foot longer
Redcrest will carry 4 persons
4 in a Redstart is "interesting"

 

[Greenheart]

I realise they're not the same - if they were, there'd have been no point manufacturing both at the same time. I daresay some people will have concluded that the 8ft Redstart was quite big enough, while the 9ft Redcrest was just absurdly lavish...

...but in terms of inflating, lifting, and fitting/running the engine, and rowing, I haven't discerned any greater ease in one than the other.

If I'm honest, I regarded the 'cockpit' area behind the inflatable rowing seat as just about sufficient for me, and the triangular area ahead of the seat, as dedicated storage for the pump...y'know, in case I needed it.

 

[neil_s]

Barely fatter tubes, Neil...I 'accidentally' bought a Redcrest and a Redstart on the same day on eBay two years ago, and they're almost indistinguishable.

I used my Tohatsu 3.5 short-shaft on the Redcrest a lot last summer. Even being gentle on the throttle, the propeller was doing its best to twist the leg forward under the boat. If the shaft was five inches longer, that effect would be worse.

Yes - even 2.5 HP is too much. I have an early Anzani Pilot outboard with a tiny little two blade prop and that is just about right - unfortunately it's not very easy to start.

 

[Greenheart]

I never heard of Anzani till today...beautiful-looking piece of engineering. What does it weigh?

If a company built an engine like that today, I'd want one.
That said, the first two I found for sale online, were well into £four-figure territory. Not bad for a 2hp, nearly seventy years old.

 

[pcatterall]

I never heard of Anzani till today...beautiful-looking piece of engineering. What does it weigh?

If a company built an engine like that today, I'd want one.
That said, the first two I found for sale online, were well into £four-figure territory. Not bad for a 2hp, nearly seventy years old.

I'll get the Brasso out for the seagull then!!

 

[Greenheart]

Am I alone thinking it looks cool?

We're accustomed to having a big plastic shoe-box sitting on top of the shaft, covered in labels, but this old motor is pared down to very shiny basics. I can't guess how pleasing an 'uncowled' four-stroke could be designed and made to be, but I'd like to know.

 

[neil_s]

They were painted in real life! That one is a later 2.5 HP model with three blade screw, two clamp screws and a cast alloy leg. The tank is steel, and cylinder cast iron so they aren't much lighter than a Seagull. My early one has an alloy tube leg, exhaust sharing with the drive shaft, and a single clamp screw. It runs well - when you get it started - giving about 1.5 HP.

 

[Greenheart]

The Redcrest has fatter tubes than the Redstart.

Perfectly correct, I'm sorry for doubting it.

When I finally tried my Redcrest's engine bracket on the Redstart today, it was plainly too big - a bracket of the same design but tighter radius is needed. Unfortunately, while Redcrest brackets seem to be quite common (though expensive), you seem to have to find a whole Redstart for sale, to buy an engine bracket which fits one.

Has anybody tried this retrofit version? It's not a giveaway but at £50 plus perhaps another £20 for the extra sockets, it's no costlier than finding one of the elusive originals.

 

[Refueler]

Back in the stone age I tried to use a standard shaft Seagull on a Redstart. It would often start when I tried it in a test tank but never on the Avon. I eventually worked out that it was back pressure caused by it being too deep. Wasted too many hours of a holiday to figure that out.

Had seagulls on Redstart ..... never had trouble starting ...

I understand the comment of backpressure .... but it never seemed to happen with mine ... I had featherweight (40-) ideal for Redstart and 40+ .... both fine.

Now I have Mercury 2hp and a Johnson 3hp to choose from ... both short.

 

[Refueler]

Perfectly correct, I'm sorry for doubting it.

When I finally tried my Redcrest's engine bracket on the Redstart today, it was plainly too big - a bracket of the same design but tighter radius is needed. Unfortunately, while Redcrest brackets seem to be quite common (though expensive), you seem to have to find a whole Redstart for sale, to buy an engine bracket which fits one.

Has anybody tried this retrofit version? It's not a giveaway but at £50 plus perhaps another £20 for the extra sockets, it's no costlier than finding one of the elusive originals.

I had my Seagull fall of my Redstart at Tudor slip after getting from mooring ... the steel mount was corroded away under the paint. Lucky we were at the slip about to lift the engine off ...

I got hold of replacement bracket (again the original steel) and treated it to rust preventer and decent coats of Hammerite ..... 25 yrs later still in good nick.

The Steel ones were replaced by Avon with Glass Fibre versions later.

 

[johnalison]

Barely fatter tubes, Neil...I 'accidentally' bought a Redcrest and a Redstart on the same day on eBay two years ago, and they're almost indistinguishable.

I used my Tohatsu 3.5 short-shaft on the Redcrest a lot last summer. Even being gentle on the throttle, the propeller was doing its best to twist the leg forward under the boat. If the shaft was five inches longer, that effect would be worse.

I know it's a long time ago but I've only just seen this. My answers to the 'twisting under' problem are:
1- Lose some weight
2- Inflate the dinghy fully. I was told by the Avon man (not to be confused with the Avon lady) that it was impossible to over-inflate with the foot pump, certainly the case with my mere 10+ stone. When inflated you should only just be able to make a dent with your thumb.

 

[johnalison]

The Steel ones were replaced by Avon with Glass Fibre versions later.

Both are perfectly satisfactory.

 

[coveman]

Both are perfectly satisfactory.

Yes - there were also some made with stainless steel - I have one.

 

[Greenheart]

My answers to the 'twisting under' problem are:
1- Lose some weight ["my mere 10+ stone"]
2- Inflate the dinghy fully. I was told by the Avon man that it was impossible to over-inflate with the foot pump.

Thanks John...actually I have lost weight since my original remarks here two years ago, so I too am now ten stone, give or take the odd lunch...

...but it never struck me that crew weight would affect the degree to which thrust from the engine could twist it out of vertical. Perhaps the engine's weight is a factor?

That photo was of my Redcrest, without floorboards. Last year I made quite good floorboards for the smaller Redstart, and I'm certain its underwater form (and performance by whatever propulsion) has been improved...

...unfortunately without a bracket I can't yet fit the Tohatsu to the Redstart to see how much the floorboards help, and I haven't yet made floorboards for the Redcrest, because I wanted to fit the smaller boat in our car for the holidays...so it's all yet to be tested and proved.

But very interesting, about the recommended pressure in the tubes. Was the Avon bod talking about new boats, or circa 1976 models, I wonder?
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