Shore course blues

[Talbot]

Winter coming on so like a lot of others my thoughts went towards some shore boaty training. I did the yachtmaster theory last winter, and found it a good refresher. So I thought I would do the Yachtmaster Ocean this year. Booked at my local college back in June - that will be £94 please, so I paid up. In July Bliar and his theiving minions changed the adult learning system, So that was another £23, and SWMBO's yoga was cancelled completely. So there I was polishing up my dad's old sextant, and trying to remember the name of some stars, when I got a phone call today - sorry not enough students on the course so it has been cancelled /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

I am one unhappy bunny, and I bet I dont get any interest on the money they have had for the last 3 months.

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[BrendanS]

Re: Pah!

Sextants!

Go post on scuttlebutt where you belong. We don't need all those qualifications, we have motorboats! What is it with raggies trying to post here, just cos it's more fun? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[Talbot]

Re: Pah!

Walks away with tail between legs thinking woofy may have got the right idea.
Bet they won't believe that I posted this here by mistake !

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[BrendanS]

Re: Pah!

/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Oh , you raggies aren't that bad you know. Some of you even use your engines on occassion? We'll keep it quiet, and not let them know.

Though one of you did a wonderful post about converting a raggie to a proper mobo a while back, and it was so well received it was one of the top scoring posts of all time <g>

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[Lozzer]

Re: Pah!

BrendanS Interesting attitude you have towards raggies!!! Even if it is tongue in cheek.

As a convert from raggie to mobo I think it is a shame MOBO owners look down their noses at the raggies.

From a seamanship perspective I would say that the average raggie is far more advanced. They also have a better appreciation of the environment around them and how their boat will react. After all most of them only have one engine and a large mast to contend with.

Give them a break and if someone wants to post about sextants then let them. who knows if you go on a long passage you might need a sextant yourself one day..

Regards
Frustrated raggie working os motor cruising instructor

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[Lozzer]

Re: Pah!

BrendanS Interesting attitude you have towards raggies!!! Even if it is tongue in cheek.

As a convert from raggie to mobo I think it is a shame MOBO owners look down their noses at the raggies.

From a seamanship perspective I would say that the average raggie is far more advanced. They also have a better appreciation of the environment around them and how their boat will react. After all most of them only have one engine and a large mast to contend with.

Give them a break and if someone wants to post about sextants then let them. who knows if you go on a long passage you might need a sextant yourself one day..

Regards
Frustrated raggie working os motor cruising instructor

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[BrendanS]

Re: Pah!

You are reading far too much into banter. I don't look down my nose at raggies at all. As it happens I'm off to Cherbourg on one Thursday.

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[powerskipper]

Re: Pah!

Each type of boating needs its own skills, mobo need as much if not more wind awareness in a marina, yachteys use it more outside the marina. Navigation differences are only subtle, one needs a bigger ruler than the other. But the basics are the same.

Lozzer why don't you go do your instructors ticket on sail boats as well.?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie

 

[Lozzer]

Re: Pah!

have it already.....

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[Mike21]

Re: Pah!

"From a seamanship perspective I would say that the average raggie is far more advanced. They also have a better appreciation of the environment around them and how their boat will react."

If you read some off the recent posts on scuttlebutt re colregs you might revise your opinion/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Medskipper]

Re: Pah!

Done loads of sailing myself as well because my brother is a raggie yachtmaster! but I cannot agree that they are far more experienced! Its just that it takes them sooo much longer to reach anywhere they have more time to read up on things!! us mobo owners get places far quicker so we have to concentrate far more on our nav work! we hav'nt got time to study while at sea!!

Besides I think all raggies are mobo owners these days any way! just look for the tell tale puff of smoke out the back! go on a voyage with any raggie actually trying to get somewhere and you can guarantee at some stage of the journey on goes the engine! Its only on a sunday afternoon tick tacking across the solent that no engine is used thats why they are forever cutting us mobo owners up! lol.


Barry

<hr width=100% size=1>I just want to retire with my boat to the Med!

 

[Lozzer]

Re: Pah!

wow what have I done? Strike me down for suggesting that raggies make better seamen.

I have now seen the light and have worked out that a boat with two engines is more difficult to handle than one because you have two things to think about RIGHT!!!!!!!!

Oh and the windage on a 60' mast is far less than that on the 34' sports cruiser SILLY ME!!!!!!

And going astern with one engine and a deep fin keel is great compared to a mobo with shafts and bow thruster???

Then there is the navigation... Average sports cruiser has a draught of 1.2m at best, average sailing yacht 1.8m, who has to know tides the most?????????

Then there is the speed to consider, average sailing boat 6 knots, average powerboat 20 knots - so power boat only has to consider less than 1/3 of the tidal affect. Their drying heights are easier to calculate.

Then we come to propulsion. Stinkies just put the engines on and make lots of noise and go around looking like nodding donkeys spending a fortune on fuel. _ Raggies have to consider the points of sailing and work hard tweaking the sails to get maximum drive out of the boat.

Your honour, I think that from the evidence that has been laid before you you will agree that Raggies are superior seamen.............

Now answer the question yes or no Sorry can you say that louder so the jury can hear.

Thanks






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[BrendanS]

Re: Pah!

A little black and white.

Many mobos are displacement and cruise at the same speed as raggies, and have to know tides just as well .

The windage on many mobos with no keel, is far greater than on a raggie with a nice keel underneath

The drying height for any boat is equally easy/difficult to calculate. Once you know what depth your boat draws, the calculation itself is exactly the same!

Also, you are not comparing like for like. You probably haven't been around here long enough to have seen the many experienced boaters on here comparing handling. Most say that bigger boats with two engines are easier to handle than smaller single engined powerboats. There are an awful lot of us with small single engined boats that are a bugger to handle in high winds with no keel to reduce windage

A lot of people have done all the same RYA exams that raggies have, and have similar knowledge.

You are also missing the fact that many regulars on here have sailed or do sail. Many started in dinghies, many still sail. Spend a little longer on here getting to know people backgrounds and abilities, and maybe even come meet some of us at some of the regular meets, before you start generalising too much.

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[Its_Only_Money]

Re: Pah!

Oh - surprise, a raggie with a chip on his shoulder.....

I have a (single engine) mobo.

I also have a sailing dinghy.

I don't have a bowthruster - (LOL at the idea on a 21ft boat!)

If you expect charted soundings to be accurate to <0.6m then I'm surprised you have an instructors ticket. (ie you expect the difference in draught 1.2m-1.8m to be significant)

IMHO of course.

<hr width=100% size=1>Rgds

Simon
Its Only Money
Fairline Sprint
Solent-based

 

[Mike21]

Re: Pah!

Don't have a bow thruster for starters, driven raggies boats, if you know what your doing they're no more difficult to handle than a powerboat. You need to be aware of tides to get into different places. Since most raggies don't sail into their berths, whether you have a 60ft mast or not makes no difference.
Shaftdriven boats handle differently to sterndrive ones.

Powerboaters are expected to show a high standard of seamanship , not only must we be aware of our own boats and the effects of wind and tide, but also know how raggie boats are affected, we also need to be psychic as we're expected to anticipate what a raggie will do next/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif.



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[claymore]

You are quite right in that there will be no interest paid on your refund. Its a shame that the funding rules have changed. The Learning and Skills council are the culprits - they've rather overspent on running costs and so that mismanagement has to be funded out of cutting back on the funds that they are supposed to manage to pay for education and training and it is frustrating for College managers who still have targets to achieve. Is there another College nearby which may still be running it?
I'd avoid correspondence courses as the stats show low retention of students - i think that points to the value of the social experience and shared learning opportunities which all night school classes - whatever the subject, offer. Social interaction and aquisition of skills/knowledge are key to a healthy society with particular relevance to an ageing population - still when we are all staring slightly mindlessly out of the windows of our respective nursing homes perhaps there'll be internet access so we can get on the forum and really be grumpy old men

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
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[BrendanS]

The OU seem to manage quite well? Very well in fact. What do they do that other correspondence courses don't?

Errr. serious question for once

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[claymore]

Yes the do things very well and run excellent programmes. I think I'm right in saying that they don't deliver the traditional 'night school' non-vocational stuff which has always been the role of Technical Colleges and latterly Colleges of FE.
I've never done an Open University course but listening to colleagues who have, there is an element of the 'loneliness of the long distance student' in there and it probably speaks volumes for the perseverence of students and tutors alike to keep as many people as they do on the programmes.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
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[Talbot]

Thank you, I have managed to find another college, and start tonight (another 20 + miles travelling though!)

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[Talbot]

Re: Pah!

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

The windage on many mobos with no keel, is far greater than on a raggie with a nice keel underneath


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Although sometimes true, it is not always. you want to try that trick on my boat with a single engine, twin rudders, lots out of the water, and practically nothing in it. I can go sideways faster than some raggies go forwards.
and no bow thruster - although I will be fitting one.

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