Shore course blues

[tcm]

Oh dear - bad form from Suncoast

not a great advert for suncoast sea school, lozzer? I am sure that phil and others wouldn't take that attitude. Neil would never have taken that attitude. Piss poor.
Suncoast have had good exposure thru here - you're undoing it as fast as possible. Brendan's pop was lighthearted and yet you ripped in even recognising the same. A retraction is in order, methinks?


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[Lozzer]

Re: Oh dear - bad form from Suncoast

TCM

I think you owe Suncoast an appology and let me explain why.

"not a great advert for suncoast sea school, lozzer? I am sure that phil and others wouldn't take that attitude. Neil would never have taken that attitude. Piss poor.
Suncoast have had good exposure thru here - you're undoing it as fast as possible. Brendan's pop was lighthearted and yet you ripped in even recognising the same. A retraction is in order, methinks?"


Where did I say that my opinions were the views of Suncoast?

As an individual I am am allowed to express and have my own personal thoughts and opinions.

I would thank you for not trying associate my opinions with Suncoast.

Suncoast is an excellent set-up offering a fantastic opportunity for people to learn in a relaxed, friendly and sunny environment, I have a lot of time for Clive and Phil. Probably more than you.

If Brendan wants an appology then he can ask for one directly.

Perhaps you should appologise to Suncoast for linking my opinion with them on this thread. Then the matter will be closed.........

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[tcm]

Re: hm, lot to learn Lozzer

Oh well, spose suncoast have had a good press, so this is what the editorials call "balance"

Lozzer, if you "search" on the word "lozzer" then it's widely visible that you work for suncoast, which for various reasons have had a good press hereabouts. Good training, and so on. I did my YM there.

But now, you bounce in on the BB having a pop at BrendanS and anyone else to the effect that all sailors are better than all mobo users. Which is contentious, simplistic and a bit unlikely.

Now, apparently, you know my opinions of others at Suncoast too. oh really? Personally, i think Phil Cool is a better seaman than Nelson and Cook combined, and that Clive walks on water. Beat that!

By contrast, i think you're a bit silly for not consideing the ramifications of going on a boating BB, saying daft things, then imagining that they are only seen "personally". They aren't.

You derive a living from boaters, some of whom are here. You didn't want to be anonymous, did you? But you could have been. You don't even realise that your post, and more of your ranting could do commercial damage to suncoast. Might be a great sailor, lozzer, but not very astute - which is surely a requirement of boating, no?







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[DepSol]

Re: Oh dear - bad form from Suncoast

The problem here is that you as an instructor for Suncoast, a MOBO sea school, are advocated that Raggies are far more superior and that it is easy to go out in a mobo compared with a sailing yacht.

Therefore you are demeening the people who you are training by saying that what they do is easy. Now I know there are difficulties in both camps however, you can not rightly say that one is harder or requires more skill than the other as they are very different.

As someone who is looked up to (instructor) you need to be helping to close the divide between motor and sail otherwise it is deemed that you have no respect for the course or people you are trying to teach.

Motor and sail need to be united otherwise problems that arise (red diesel price) can not be fought for properly if we are fighting amongst ourselves.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>

 

[kimhollamby]

Cool it everyone

This is in danger of going the way of all flesh if it gets any more personal.

As Lord High Admiral (well from my perspective anyway) it seems fairly obvious that if you decry the skills of motorboaters in their own back yard there is likely to be a backlash.

My own experience is that I have met highly skilled people in both camps -- and also seen a lot of silly things in both camps. Whether one lot collectively outbalances the other lot in terms of skills I dare say varies from season to season, where you happen to be observing, what your benchmarks for 'silly' are and so on. Not even really possible to test comparisons because one lot if often packing up and going home, having decided that bumpy is not much fun when the other lot are just getting excited about enough wind to sail.

Can I leave this thread any longer without it going meltdown?

ps judging from a PM the instructor concerned would like it to be known that he is an independent instructor and therefore his views are his own.

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[kimhollamby]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

<font size=1>still when we are all staring slightly mindlessly out of the windows of our respective nursing homes perhaps there'll be internet access so we can get on the forum and really be grumpy old men</font size=1>

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Oh pleeeease! And I thought I'd be allowed to retire peacefully (probably at around 85 judging by the typical life expectancy of pensions now)

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[tcm]

Re: Fair enough: question for Lozzer

hum, no risk of meltdown from me.

But regardles of whether the thread is pulled or not here's a question for Lozzer:

Does it remain the case that people booking courses at Suncoast might possibly be using the (albeit independently contracted-in - they won't know who is part of the company and who isn't) services of Lozzer - still holding his contentious and ambivalent views towards motoboaters?

Or has Lozzer misrepresented his views - a moment of madness, perhaps, from which retraction and redemption remains an option?

So far, Lozzer seems determined not to retract or moderate his views. Oh sure, he wants to "make up and be friends" by PM - but that's not the same.





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[Lozzer]

Re: Fair enough: question for Lozzer

TCM I too will not meltdown despite sitting in the sunshine beer in hand on the costa del sol.

I think that you will find that whilst teaching I make no comparison between the different types of yachtie. And to bear witness to this all you have to do is ask my employers how many satisfied clients I have taught this year.

I am happy teaching power or sail as all I want to do is get more people boating because it is a great pastime as you know.

What is proof about my unbiased opinion is that a lot of the people I have taught are happy boat owners (power) and these people are so sastified with me that they have become personal friends whom when they are in Spain on their yachts we spend time together.

Now I agreee with Kim's comment about how there are good and bad people in both camps. I pride myself in having abilities in both camps (not being contentious).

As you indicate I am an "independtly contracted-in instructor for Suncoast they have the choice to invite me back to work or not. Perhaps I will let you know PM if my services are still required.

MY view hasnt been misrepresented, I do believe that technically sail is more difficult than power. It doesnt mean that the people are any better. It means that they have different skills and perhaps more of them.

Now TCM given that I have moderated my stance perhaps you would like to accept that they are my views and not those of a company that uses my services on a sub-contract basis and post an appology not to me but to them for bringing them into the discussion.

Enough said.

Now your post about red diesel...... will the lethargy of the British government be the reason for the price rise?


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[kimhollamby]

\'ang on a sec

Just to satisfy my curiosity -- is it so completely out of order to believe that one breed are better than the other in terms of skills, despite trying more recently to earn your living out of the other? Is that opportunistic and cynical, or realistically, just an honest expression of a view that was always going to go down like a bucket load of sick here.

If Lozzer is YMI sail and power one might argue he is in a good position to judge relative merits, provided he wasn't expressing a personal preference and allowed that to subjectively colour his judgement. It might also run the danger of illustrating that he could get a better result out of students on a sailboat versus a powerboat but we are not well armed to believe that is the case. Okay, would be bad if you looked down your nose while teaching and I've met instructors with chips on shoulders and attitudes wider than the Cheddar Gorge, but don't think there's any suggestion of that?

I have a personal notion, not so often aired here, that some of the best boaters out there are the ones that grew up sailing small dinghies and gained another sense thanks to discovering the dynamic of hull through water via the skin of the bottom. I would hope that didn't however discount what I did (and continue to do on a lesser level) for motorboating mags over 20 years or so, despite the fact that the majority of the audience had not started out that way...

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by kimhollamby on 23/09/2004 15:32 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[powerskipper]

Re: \'ang on a sec

And you forgot, if you are siting in the bottom of a light weight boat thingy and you hit a wave hard, Ouch /forums/images/icons/frown.gif you do feel the water [ER sore seat shall I say]

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie

 

[kimhollamby]

Now now

You don't need to be in a dinghy to hit the water hard -- drive a motorboat the wrong way and you can get the bone-crunching bump, followed by enough green water to make you think you capsized /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[powerskipper]

Re: Now now

Very true, but at least They TRY to pad the seats on mobos, Had some students out last week and we played in the rough water a bit, I think I was the driest when we got back in, but not by much. and we all had big grins on our salt covered faces .[ps forecast was wrong , bad Mon Tue, better wed to Fri]

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie

 

[tcm]

Re: Fair enough: question for Lozzer

okay dokey. This is quite diferent in tone, and in substance. Nuff said.





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[tcm]

Re: Fair enuf but...

i don't disagree. Hence i said "bad form" not "lies, all lies". The way he expressed those opinions did indeed imply that he might allow it to colour his judgement - it took the very mildest raggie/stinkie jibe to set him off into orbit.

I agree that small boats give close feel of the water, tho the widest possible experience of boats is a key thing.

Also, i suppose, paying for the damage when they break or get crunched - effectively a massive "fine" for hitting something or making a mistake - is not often experienced by many in the boating industry.



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