Sharing Survey

[Esmall7251]

We sent in an offer to boat owner. He responded asking for a copy of the full survey. We sent the 2nd survey we received with all the issues on the boat and the engine survey. He wants the full survey.
What should we do?

 

[Tiderace]

You don't have to provide a copy of the survey if you don't want to, its your property as you paid for it and he has no right to it.

You have made him an offer for the boat based on the survey you commissioned. Its up to him now.

Whether you provide the survey I think depends on the particular situation. Personally I would not provide it to him, but give him a list of all the points that were picked up; like you have. If he doesn't like that, his problem.

 

[RichardS]

We sent in an offer to boat owner. He responded asking for a copy of the full survey. We sent the 2nd survey we received with all the issues on the boat and the engine survey. He wants the full survey.
What should we do?

I would probably not consider buying a boat from such an owner.

However, if I really wanted the boat, I would advise him that I am quite happy to provide the full survey but that will invoke a further 10% reduction in the agreed price.

Richard

 

[jwilson]

It is normal for an owner to want to see relevant parts of a survey report if you are seeking a reduced price after survey. It does not normally HAVE to be the full survey, but enough to demonstrate that you have a valid reason or reasons for seeking to alter the originally agreed price after survey. Usually pre-purchase surveys have sets of recommendations, split into urgent and safety related items, items suggested that be done in the next few years, and longer term and "would be nice" items. They usually also include a list of recommended additions to the inventory, often including new flares, lifejackets etc. Unless said items were on the inventory that formed part of the purchase contract, you cannot argue for them to be provided.

Bear in mind that you should not try to drive down the price post-survey on the grounds of items that would or should have been immediately obvious to you on your own look at the boat before making an offer, or things that were declared to you before you made your offer.

 

[Hacker]

When we recently purchased our new boat there were 3 issues bought up on the survey that were deal breakers (of course there were loads of other issues most trivial). I had no issue with sending the survey to the broker with a list of the work I required before completion. Owner agreed to sort those issues at his cost and the sale proceeded at my offer price. Can't think of any legit reason not to share.

 

[Stooriefit]

Move on and buy another boat

 

[pvb]

We sent in an offer to boat owner. He responded asking for a copy of the full survey. We sent the 2nd survey we received with all the issues on the boat and the engine survey. He wants the full survey.
What should we do?

Sounds unusual. Is there a broker involved? How much is the boat?

 

[Concerto]

Personally I would show the survey in person, but not provide a copy as the survey was for my benefit not his. He has no right to a copy as the surveyor has no contract with the seller. If the sale falls through, he may then illegally provide a copy to another interested purchaser. I believe you can sell a copy to another potential purchaser at something like 50% of the cost, however the potential purchaser will have no legal comeback to the surveyor as they did not commission it. It does save them several hundreds of pounds.
"Any liability is under the jurisdiction of the UK courts, to the above client only and not to anyfuture holderof this report. " was written on my survey.

 

[TernVI]

As a seller, I think I'd expect to get copies of any parts of the survey which the buyer is seeking to use to get either work done or a price reduction.
That would enable me to get quotes and/or technical guidance.
The buyer has contracted to buy the boat, subject to the survey? The buyer needs to produce evidence that the work is required or the boat is faulty.
Also I'd expect all the survey faults to be declared in one go, no negotiating money of for one thing then raising new issues.

As a buyer, I'd either backpedalling furiously and wanting my deposit back, or wanting the best route to getting the issues fixed.
It may be that the vendor, having owned the boat knows stuff about getting it fixed etc.

 

[[70521]]

Odd that a survey was done before an offer was submitted.

 

[Slowboat35]

Why would you put an offer on a boat that you thought might have defects without getting a survey first to see what you're putting an offer on?

Sounds perfectly normal to me - in fact it sounds rather risky not to.

I wouldn't provide a copy to the vendor though. If he was aware that there were/might be problems but wasn't sure how severe he ought to get the boat surveyed himself before marketing it with a description and price that he does not believe representative of the vessel's condition. Why provide him with a survey gratis?

On receipt of your survey either go back to him with your (lower) offer justifying the reduction in terms of "Survey determined critical deficiencies xyz required " against estimated cost of correction or (safer, better)a sensible offer "subject to your having xyz corrected to our/my surveyor's satisfaction".

Last boat I bought the vendor handed me a survey he'd had done prior to sale and took me round the points brought up to show he was being open about it. The surveyor was a respected one and frankly it saved me getting one done myself as there was clearly nothing to worry about.
Way to go, if you ask me.
I bought the boat for the asking price.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I cannot see why the Op would lose anything by giving a full copy out as a helpful gesture. Unless they were lying about something to survey says, which is sharp practice.

If the Op does not buy the boat due to non-agreement of price, it does not hurt the OP if another potential buyer sees the survey. It is not illegal to share the survey with the seller and what the vendor does with it is beyond the Ops control.

Having no legal obligation is not the same as having a legal prohibition. Deals are sweeter if both parties feel they are winning at least respect

 

[Never Grumble]

I wouldn't provide the survey ... say he doesn't sell to you ... then uses your survey to promote the condition of the vessel to other parties. Nearly happened to me.

 

[Bodach na mara]

The normal procedure would be to make an offer "subject to satisfactory condition survey and test sail ". In the event that the survey reveals problems (and most of them do) you have 3 routes open.
1. You can withdraw from the contract, but only if the survey exposed serious faults that had not been disclosed by the seller.
2. You can complete the purchase if the survey is satisfactory TO YOU.
3. You can seek to negotiate a price reduction in respect of making good the undisclosed faults.
In routes 1 and 3 the seller is entitled to sight of the survey, but definitely not a copy.

 

[RJJ]

If the Op does not buy the boat due to non-agreement of price, it does not hurt the OP if another potential buyer sees the survey.

I differ on two counts. First, the other potential buyer might have paid for a copy of the survey, so the OP doesn't get the chance to sell it. Second, the seller has the opportunity to review all the recommendations - as said above, he's received a survey at no charge, so that could affect his willingness to proceed with your transaction.

I agree with the advice to provide sight of the relevant paragraphs only. If the seller wants the survey, he can pay you for it in the event he keeps the boat.

 

[Biggles Wader]

OP joined forum yesterday at 1251, posted the question at 1300 and has not been back to reap the benefit of all the advice posted.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I differ on two counts. First, the other potential buyer might have paid for a copy of the survey, so the OP doesn't get the chance to sell it. Second, the seller has the opportunity to review all the recommendations - as said above, he's received a survey at no charge, so that could affect his willingness to proceed with your transaction.

I agree with the advice to provide sight of the relevant paragraphs only. If the seller wants the survey, he can pay you for it in the event he keeps the boat.

There is another possibility, which is that the seller may wish to challenge the surveyor's conclusions. Many times, people have reported occasions when surveyors have made incorrect assessments of a boat's condition, either through being unfamiliar with a particular type, or even through lack of knowledge (as far as I know, there is no formal qualification for becoming a yacht surveyor, though most do). I'm not saying it's a large proportion of surveys that are wrong, but enough are that the seller could reasonably feel that the surveyor's assessment is incorrect or unfair.

I'd propose something like giving the seller a copy with an agreement not to disclose it to a third party without further permission.

 

[dankilb]

I was asked to provide a copy of the survey (via the broker) at the point of negotiations over a further reduction to the price to cover defects. Seemed reasonable enough - as negotiations had been very convivial so far and a price was already agreed/deposit paid. I got the reduction in the end!

I get that a seller might (likely will) use the survey if the sale falls through. But then again, it doesn’t really have any independent ‘value’ other than as pertaining to that particular vessel and I can’t really see the harm in it ‘falling into the wrong hands’ (it’s just a bit annoying and as others say indicates ‘bad faith’ on the part of the seller).

 

[Never Grumble]

I get that a seller might (likely will) use the survey if the sale falls through. But then again, it doesn’t really have any independent ‘value’ other than as pertaining to that particular vessel and I can’t really see the harm in it ‘falling into the wrong hands’ (it’s just a bit annoying and as others say indicates ‘bad faith’ on the part of the seller)

if it all goes smoothly then there's never a problem, having spent £400 on a survey I had to pull out because of the sellers attitude towards remedying some works, if I'd have given them a "free" copy of the survey I'd have been doubly unhappy.