Setting up for single handed sailing

[Kukri]

If your running backstays are correctly set up, and your mainsail is halfway respectable, you will be able to sail close hauled with both backstays set up, so you only need to touch them once you are off the wind.

They are a PITA if they are set up with rope tails to winches or (worse) blocks. It you use Highfield levers they are dead easy.

 

[Zagato]

" Originally Posted by Zagato
Why would you have running backstays if you have a cutter rig, you would think a big genoa would put put more strain on the rigging".

Cos the inner forestay is not attached to the top of the mast and therefore not totally supported by the backstay, unlike the outer forestay. Less than F5 won't matter, but if going to windward in anything stronger, and in a lumpy sea, the mast will start to 'pump' where the inner forestay is attached.

Ah thanks for that 'P', I'll have a look at my set up tomorrow. They probably didn't put them on mine as my jib is so small, I havn't noticed any pumping so far but then I just use my stay sail in blowy conditions with the thinking that that the bow is stronger than the bowsprit! You can tell I have years of experience in all this can't you

The new Crabber 26 with Gaff cutter rig doesn't have runnig backstays either!...

 

[NigelCraig]

My Sadler 32 has a140% genoa and a No 3 genoa, both with padded luffs. If I know I'll be close hauled against a F5 or above, I'll set the No3 up before setting off, otherwise the 140% stays up.

I've found that it's best to take a reef, sometimes two, in the main before rolling up the genoa to any extent, but if a quick reduction is needed, obviously the headsail will be reefed first.

All easily done with the autohelm steering, but the Sadler can be persuaded to jog along for a short while with just the tiller lashed if necessary.

Right - how do you set up your no.3 - is it on a separate stay or on the furler? If you have to change from the 140% to the no3 when underway what's the procedure?

 

[Babylon]

If your running backstays are correctly set up, and your mainsail is halfway respectable, you will be able to sail close hauled with both backstays set up, so you only need to touch them once you are off the wind.

You're right, however...

They are a PITA if they are set up with rope tails to winches or (worse) blocks. It you use Highfield levers they are dead easy.

Mine have rope tails to blocks with a cam on the one closest to the deck U-bolt, but when off the wind I tend to ignore the cam-block and just load the tail onto the windward stays'l winch - with the consequence that the leeward backstay has to be let off before the stays'l sheet can be set up on its own winch.

To stop the loose leeward backstay from flopping around everywhere, its block is secured with shock-cord to the shroud plates which reduces its swing - else it can be lightly tensioned using the cam-block.

Different boats, different solutions - my boat is small and everything is within quick and easy reach from the cockpit.

 

[Babylon]

Ah thanks for that 'P', I'll have a look at my set up tomorrow. They probably didn't put them on mine as my jib [do you mean staysail?]is so small, I havn't noticed any pumping so far but then I just use my stay sail in blowy conditions with the thinking that that the bow is stronger than the bowsprit! You can tell I have years of experience in all this can't you

The new Crabber 26 with Gaff cutter rig doesn't have runnig backstays either!...

Interesting that neither of these modern cutters are equipped with running backstays.

What, I wonder, is the thinking behind this omission? That the mast won't pump? That the basic rig can cope? That these cutters aren't really designed for serious offshore conditions?

 

[jwilson]

On a Nic 32 for singlehanding I'd aim for about a 120-130% padded-luff roller genoa, plus a detachable inner forestay for a storm jib, which will probably almost never be used. The reduction from the usual 150% genoa means that you are mostly only rolling in one or two rolls to reef to working jib size, and keep a fairly decent shape.

If just coastal/cross-channel type pottering with time to wait for weather you can do without the inner forestay/storm jib. Would certainly not mess about with rigging as a cutter. As others have said a really good powerful tillerpilot is a huge help.

 

[James_Calvert]

Right - how do you set up your no.3 - is it on a separate stay or on the furler? If you have to change from the 140% to the no3 when underway what's the procedure?

It's on the furler. And because I can reef the larger one down enough in most circumstances, I don't try to change it on passage. Occasionally I might want to change the smaller for the larger, but I wouldn't bother if singlehanded, the Sadler goes quite well even when undercanvassed, and if it was a matter of making a tidal gate or whatever I'd motorsail, which for a sailing boat, the Sadler performs very well.

 

[Pye_End]

Interesting that neither of these modern cutters are equipped with running backstays.

What, I wonder, is the thinking behind this omission? That the mast won't pump? That the basic rig can cope? That these cutters aren't really designed for serious offshore conditions?

Perhaps partly a size issue, and maybe masts are stronger than older wooden versions? Maybe the head of the babystay are higher than they used to be on old 26's.

The Frances 26 or Victoria 800 generally do not have runners but are capable yachts. They do have a 3/4 shroud which is the one most aft which presumably does part of the job of a runner, although it is a relatively poor angle. However Vancouver 27 cutters do seem to have runners.

 

[Zagato]

Interesting that neither of these modern cutters are equipped with running backstays.

No I mean't jib Babylon, presuming the sail furthest forward would give the most pull but I make it up as I go along!! The jib is pretty small, like a storm jib as you can see in my avatar picture...

I always thought a roller reefing jib would be ideal for a single hander but again havn't a clue - surely it would be better than having two cutter sails

 

[jesterchallenger]

If you keep the furling genoa down to 120% or slightly less, then with a foam luff it should furl nicely to a No 3 size. If you have a good detachable inner forestay set up as far forward as possible then you can use it to set a hanked No 4 and storm jib to keep you going in heavy weather. You can use this same stay to set a light weather ghoster on hanks when the furling genoa is not big or light enough and you also have the ability to set it up to fly twin headsails downwind - furler out one side and ghoster/No 4 out the other. It's not perfect, but lot more versatile than just a furler on its own.

 

[NigelCraig]

On a Nic 32 for singlehanding I'd aim for about a 120-130% padded-luff roller genoa, plus a detachable inner forestay for a storm jib, which will probably almost never be used. The reduction from the usual 150% genoa means that you are mostly only rolling in one or two rolls to reef to working jib size, and keep a fairly decent shape.

If just coastal/cross-channel type pottering with time to wait for weather you can do without the inner forestay/storm jib. Would certainly not mess about with rigging as a cutter. As others have said a really good powerful tillerpilot is a huge help.

Just wondered about fitting a detachable inner forestay, is that safe to do with existing standing rigging set up for masthead rig? - just wondered because there would be no direct support behind the attachment point on the mast.

 

[mjcoon]

Just wondered about fitting a detachable inner forestay, is that safe to do with existing standing rigging set up for masthead rig? - just wondered because there would be no direct support behind the attachment point on the mast.

Would it be at least partially balanced by tension from a trysail leach?

Mike.

 

[jwilson]

Just wondered about fitting a detachable inner forestay, is that safe to do with existing standing rigging set up for masthead rig? - just wondered because there would be no direct support behind the attachment point on the mast.

The inner forestay only needs to be maybe six inches below the masthead, and six inches to a foot or two aft of the stemhead - many yachts including mine have this with no other alterations to the existing rig. You are not creating a cutter, just a stay that will take a hanked on storm jib just inches aft of the rolled-up genoa. You can also use it as a twin-headsail downwind rig if you happen to have an old bigger hanked-on headsail lying around - and two poles.

The top attachment is so close to the masthead that it is supported adequately by the existing backstay/cap shrouds. The removable stay is brought back to the mast or sidedeck shrouds when not in use. In use mine is tensioned with a block and tackle (useful for other things) though most people have highfield levers on them. I don't like the highfield lever setup as it always leaves a too-long wire and lump of ironmongery when not in use (99.9% of the time). With a block and tackle the wire can be just the right length to tie down to a shroud plate or the mast base. Also big highfield levers are ludicrously expensive.

 

[jwilson]

Would it be at least partially balanced by tension from a trysail leach?

Mike.

Doubt it would make much difference, in another post I explained the setup for a detachable inner forestay. Almost no-one ever has a trysail: most modernish boats sail as well in serious weather with storm jib alone as they would with a trysail. You might think balance would be bad but when you're heeled 15-20 degrees with bare mast windage you NEED an unbalance area-forward rig to correct the heel-generated weather helm.

 

[James_Calvert]

If you keep the furling genoa down to 120% or slightly less, then with a foam luff it should furl nicely to a No 3 size.QUOTE]

On my Sadler 32, my 140% will roll down to an effective No 3. The previous 150% didn't really, and the 165%, which is the proper sized No 1 genoa, certainly wouldn't have.

I've very rarely had to roll down the No 3, but it was well worth getting the luff padded. Makes no difference when the sail is fully unfurled, but really helps the sail set in 40 knots or so closehauled. Before I had it padded it would still draw but wouldn't point as well, although we were in relatively sheltered water (Thames Sea Reach).

What is surprising is how much difference taking reefs in the mainsail makes, despite it being relatively small compared to fractional rigs. I really don't need to reef the genny, the large or the small one, until the second mainsail reef is in. And if you've got a keen dinghy type (like my son) available to play the main, the boat goes really well upwind up to F5 or 6 before you really need to reef. But when the reef(s) is/are in, the boat's heel and weather helm reduces (not that we ever lose rudder control) and the wind has got to get a whole lot stronger before we really need to reef the genoa.

I don't know what type of sailing the OP has in mind, but for South Coast and cross channel, N France and CI family cruising, I've never really felt the need for complications like extra forestays and hanked on storm jibs and the like. I guess it might be different if a boat was for training purposes, and passages had to be made whatever the weather.

 

[Greenwichman]

It's all about the steering

Interesting thread. SWMBO likes harbours, so I've sailed singlehanded for 3 decades ......

Most recent cruising boat has been a Beneteau First 285 with lift keel and twin rudders. As result of various exciting experiences in edgy conditions I am totally converted to twin rudders for single-handing. The rig has been the least of it - though in principle I really like cutter rig, in practice the 285 isn't long enough and so I just roll the genoa and put up with the baggy shape. When a blow can be predicted I take down the genoa and set a skinny jib (the boat came with both).

What makes the total difference between hanging on grimly wishing for crew and having a fabulous solo sail is the reliability with which the boat responds to the helm. Whether on auto-pilot or hand steering a well-mannered yacht is a dream; this is where twin rudders score. When heeled, one rudder is always gripping the water; when running, the rudders track the boat straight as an arrow, even surfing is not dangerous (as I proved to myself in a hairy sleigh-ride off Dungeness). The only tricky bit is sometimes close-quarters handling under power, when the prop-wash passes between rather than over the rudders. The way to deal with that is to keep way on to maintain steerage and in the final stages have some variety of pole-mounted auto-hook with which to secure a line to the berth.

Current boat is a Hawk 20, which breaks the rule about rudders, but is fab in other ways. Next boat when back in UK will be 30' plus, with twin rudders for sure. And lift keel if possible - just love crossing the Thames Estuary when you can set your draught at 2 metres or 2 feet.

Happy single-handing.