Selling your boat

phantomlady

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Do forum members think it matters where your boat is located when it comes to selling?
For example, if it was a liveaboard/long distance cruiser type, would people prefer it to be moored somewhere sunny and warm already or would they just see that as a hassle because of the distance to go and view it (assuming buyers are in UK of course)
Also, do people automatically think they will get a better price on a boat where no broker is involved because of lack of commission to pay or do they think that at least a broker has put a fair market price on the vessel and not some pie-in-the-sky owners idea of what it's worth?
 

douglas_family

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I think most UK buyers want a boat in Europe for tax reasons. The paperwork is very important and a broker can be helpful in ensuring everthing is in order. I think the seller saves on commision rather than the buyer as brokerage boats still have to compete with private sales on price. I think boats in obscure locations are likely to sell cheeper especially if there isn't direct flights. In my opinion the quality of the pictures and the boats presentation are probably paramount for live aboard type vessels. I dont think people who want coastal crusers are likely to travell so far and some people find having to deal with laungage difficulties off putting.
 

Richard10002

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I tried to sell my boat in Malta.... It was on the market with a broker for just over a year, (April 08/ April 09). Broker suggested asking £120k. I thought it was high, given the economic situation, but gave it a try - he knew his market... didn't he.

Needless to say, no offers. I instructed him to drop the price a couple of times, without success. We fell out over a matter other than the selling of the boat, so I started putting the word about privately, (here mainly). I also decided to sail her back to England over July/August '09.

A few people in England showed an interest but couldnt make it to Malta before I left.

Almost as soon as I got back to Glasson Dock lots more interest. First person to view came from about 20 miles away, and made an acceptable offer. Quite a bit less than the initial £120k asking price, but very much in line with what I felt the current market value was. Transaction went really smoothly... I made sure I knew how the paperwork side of things worked, provided any info asked for in a timely fashion. We trusted each other.

So... broker in Malta was overly optimistic, and possibly cost me money by asking too much.

Main interest was from the UK, and Malta was difficult to get to, i.e. a bit more hassle than a couple of hours in a car. Sold as soon as I returned to the UK.

Read into that what you will.
 

jonic

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It depends on the boat and location but generally easier to sell and better price in the UK.

Also remember if a boat is outside the EU when sold it loses it's VAT paid status.
This can limit your European market as VAT will be payable on re-entry to the EU by the new owner.
 

SHUG

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Brought my boat back to the UK after five years liveaboard and sold it privately.Good response from free websites. If you do your own preparation and can be available to show the boat a broker is superfluous. (IMHO).... and I don't want to start a new broker thread!!!!!!
 

Zanziba

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When I eventually come to buy my yacht I will probably buy one in the UK for the following reasons:

A) I don't really want to fly out to see a yacht, it means I am kean and will restrict my bargaining power. It is also going to be a waste of cash if I book flights and it is sold in the meantime.

B) I don't understand the legalities and I am more confident that I would be able to understand the legal / paper work side of things in the UK.

C) I don't want a language barrier to get in the way, particularly in arranging / understanding surveys, repairs, history or paperwork.

D) I am going to live in the UK for a while so £5k transport costs or sailing it back.

Bad points though of a UK purchase are:

A) They are a little more expensive, but this is often offset by the 20% VAT already having been paid.

B) There is FAR less choice in the 38' - 42' market I am currently browsing. It seems the UK market is more pleasure / weekend craft than the ex-charter yachts of greece / turkey / croatia.

I have found this site which is Northern Europe so may offer the best of both worlds:

http://www.yachtingcompany.com/index.php?
 

25931

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When I eventually come to buy my yacht I will probably buy one in the UK for the following reasons:

A) I don't really want to fly out to see a yacht, it means I am kean and will restrict my bargaining power. It is also going to be a waste of cash if I book flights and it is sold in the meantime.

B) I don't understand the legalities and I am more confident that I would be able to understand the legal / paper work side of things in the UK.

C) I don't want a language barrier to get in the way, particularly in arranging / understanding surveys, repairs, history or paperwork.

D) I am going to live in the UK for a while so £5k transport costs or sailing it back.

Bad points though of a UK purchase are:

A) They are a little more expensive, but this is often offset by the 20% VAT already having been paid.

B) There is FAR less choice in the 38' - 42' market I am currently browsing. It seems the UK market is more pleasure / weekend craft than the ex-charter yachts of greece / turkey / croatia.

I have found this site which is Northern Europe so may offer the best of both worlds:

http://www.yachtingcompany.com/index.php?

I would take issue (I'm biased: I have a boat for sale here) on several points.

A) Available cash is your main bargaining power, I would be prepared to guarrantee not to sell if someone told me that he was coming down specially.

B) The legalities of buying a British flagged vessel do not depend on its location.

C) As long as you understand enough English there is no problem with a British flagged boat in an area where there are British surveyors.

D) Many people who live in the UK keep boats in places further south where cheap flights are available and the weather usually means that you can sail at any time.
 

Tranona

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I agree there are distinct advantages in buying a boat in the Med - IF you intend keeping it there. If it is a UK owned boat which many are the only "difficulty" is access for viewing - all the processes are exactly the same as buying a boat in the UK. A boat owned by a non UK national can be more complex because of dealing with the other country's rules, particularly on registration and title- but none are insurmountable.

The upside is that you usually get a better choice of boat, probably better equipped for the intended use and available for immediate use. The boat may well be cheaper than an equivalent boat in UK, particularly if you take into account the additional equipment.

Buying a boat in UK for use in hot climates has distinct disadvantages. The choice is much more limited. Many, particularly older boats, need a lot of work to make them suitable for the journey and use elsewhere. Of course if "getting there" is part of your project then you have to buy in the UK and accept the restricted choice which in part explains why so many UK boats in the Med are not well suited to their use. However, you may be lucky and find a boat that has already done the trip (like mine - but not for sale) that is just about ready to go and do it again. Such beasts are rare!
 

phantomlady

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I think that some of it could be just luck, serendipity, or whatever you want to call it. We sold our last two yachts to people we knew. One to a friend and one to someone moored on the same pontoon as us in Portugal.
Far from being an exact science, surely some of it is matching buyer and vessel......?
 

chinita

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In 2001 (pre- internet boom and pre-Euro) I spotted a four year old German owned HR36 for sale in Majorca, advertised in YM with a DM price equivalent to £91,500. This was tens of thousands below the others we had viewed around UK.

That was on the Wednesday. By Saturday afternoon we had flown over there and bought her. We were the first of four parties to view that day. The other three missed out.

Three years later we sold her to friends in Spain for £125,000. We were happy and they were happy.

Not sure what the moral is except, perhaps, right boat, right place, right time, right people.

I don't think that there is any obvious formula to buying or selling a boat. A lot is down to luck - for all involved.

Good luck!
 

Zanziba

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That was on the Wednesday. By Saturday afternoon we had flown over there and bought her. We were the first of four parties to view that day. The other three missed out.

A lot is down to luck - for all involved.

I'd be gutted to have been one of the three that paid fligths to see it and then missed out! That would be my main concern flying to see a yacht. I guess that I'd have to have a list of 4 or 5 to view in the same trip.
 

Eurydice

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I agree with the theme of it's luck. When we recently sold we had been trying for almost two years. We had it with three brokers, two magazines and we put a board up on the boom everytime we moored up. We finally sold it moored on a quayside within an hour of our arrival!

The one thing we did find during the process awkward is that as full time liveaboards she was packed full of our tat. Everytime someone wanted to view her it was a monster task getting some of our stuff out so they could actually see the boat!

Best of luck
 

chinita

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I'd be gutted to have been one of the three that paid fligths to see it and then missed out! That would be my main concern flying to see a yacht. I guess that I'd have to have a list of 4 or 5 to view in the same trip.

Absolutely agree.

As the sale progressed I made telephone calls to the owner in Germany. When I expressed surprised that his answerphone message was in Englsih he said that this was because he had received so many enquiries from Britain.

Again - I was just lucky.
 

chinita

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I agree with the theme of it's luck. When we recently sold we had been trying for almost two years. We had it with three brokers, two magazines and we put a board up on the boom everytime we moored up. We finally sold it moored on a quayside within an hour of our arrival!

The one thing we did find during the process awkward is that as full time liveaboards she was packed full of our tat. Everytime someone wanted to view her it was a monster task getting some of our stuff out so they could actually see the boat!

Best of luck

Same for me with another boat. After many months with no response through the brokerage I gave up.Within a week a guy responded to the priviate 'For Sale' sign whilst berth on the pontoon, had a look around and made an acceptable offer on the spot.

To the OP, we have a boat here in Portugal which is extremely cluttered (so much that we need several hours to prepare her for sailing). If we ever wanted to sell, I would rent some storage and remove the liveaboard evidence.

I think there is a healthy balance to be sought. Not abandoned, not unloved, not a floating caravan, just a little bit personal and the sort of boat you can see yourself loving.

A few other observations:

1. Make an excuse and leave viewers to have a look on their own.

2. As they leave, see if they look back, if they don't - forget it.

3. Women are the decision makers. clean and sweet smelling heads, nice and clean upholstery, sweet bilges.

easy!
 

jonic

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At the moment it is all about presentation, presentation and presentation.

I had an owner ask me to sell his boat and what should he do to prepare her.

He was excellent and did just as I said. We had the decks pressure washed, interior cleaned out of all personal stuff and I photographed her with a new camera with a fast f2 24mm lens.

I posted this gallery on my site on Friday.

By Saturday I had a firm offer based just on the photos and description.

By Monday the purchaser came to view and promptly signed the contract.
 

Southern Sailors

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At the moment it is all about presentation, presentation and presentation.
John,

I couldn't agree more! Nice Bav 41 BTW, just what I'm in the market for...

As a current buyer, I search using some of the global web pages but focus on yachts already based in the Med. I want to buy one over there that I can jump on and get sailing in the Med immediately. I don't want to have to have her delivered there.

I spend a lot of time on brokerages like Selymar and others as well, but their presentation is not up to scratch. They run photos out of brochures that aren't of the actual listed yacht for sale. So, its impossible as a would-be buyer to get the feel for the exact yacht offered from the photos put up. They often even have mis-matched photos with the 4 cabin layout shown but with a photo of the owners bow cabin from the 3 cabin layout also shown. I want a 3 cabin 40 or 46 Bav and dislike seeing that mixed up.

I anticipate I'll end up flying to somewhere like Croatia and contacting a broker or two then spending a month or so perusing current models on offer until I can find one that fits the bill at an acceptable negotiated price.

Not sure if that helps, but I'm a would-be buyer so maybe it might inform your selling process.

Cheers,
Mike

PS John, if the contract is signed then you should probably update the status from Under Offer to Sold. Another thing buyers dislike is misrepresentation as to availability. Although, I typically read under offer as sold...
 
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jonic

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PS John, if the contract is signed then you should probably update the status from Under Offer to Sold. Another thing buyers dislike is misrepresentation as to availability. Although, I typically read under offer as sold...

Hi Mike

Thanks for your insights. (I may have a Bav 47 soon, but it will be in the Channel Islands not the Med.)

When you see under offer or sale pending in Europe it is because the boat has an acceptable offer and a deposit paid but is subject to survey and or sea trial.

A contract has been signed but the buyer has up to 28 days to survey and trial. During that time the boat cannot be sold to another buyer (even for a higher offer). So it is marked as under offer not sold.

If the survey is acceptable to the buyer he signs for acceptance and pays the balance and the boat can then be marked as sold. If not the contract ends and the boat resumes it's for sale status.
 
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