Selling your boat

[Saint Louis]

So much depends on individual circumstances. When we bought our boat (not the hotel barge, the one with sails) she was in Turkey. I knew what the boat was - photographs, inventory, specifications all added to the picture - and the low-cost trip out was to check that what I saw matched what I had been told. Two relevent details:- firstly, the seller undertook to give me first refusal on the boat before I booked the flight, so that it would only be a "wasted" journey if I decided not to buy. Secondly - we moved the boat to Greece for the "point of sale", so that she did not loose VAT-paid status. The result - all the joys of the Eastern Mediterranean available with no costs or inconvenience of getting the boat there, plus loads of local knowledge gained from the seller - best places to winter, best yards, etc. I would be pretty sure that when the time comes to sell we will follow the same blueprint. As regards language difficulties, those are imagined problems - In Turkey and Greece I have yet to find a yard or a surveyor without excellent English. Don't be so timid - you're a sailor!

 

[sarabande]

Ionic - what a demonstration of how to present a boat for sale !

No wonder she sold so quickly.

 

[Tranona]

I anticipate I'll end up flying to somewhere like Croatia and contacting a broker or two then spending a month or so perusing current models on offer until I can find one that fits the bill at an acceptable negotiated price.


Cheers,
Mike

The majority of boats of this type for sale in Croatia and Greece are ex charter boats. The normal contract period for a charter boat is 6 seasons, then it is replaced. The boats can be owned by the charter company or (like mine) owned privately but chartered under a management contract, but to ease the bureacracy it is often formally owned by a local company. When the contract comes to the end, a private owner can either take the boat over (paying VAT if in Greece), sell the boat himself or sell it to the operator, who may then keep on using it or sell it.

So, the major source of boats is the charter operators such as Kiriacoulis (Bavaria dealer in Greece), Cosmos, Vernicos, Sunsail, Moorings etc. They advertise and sell directly. There are relatively few brokerages active in this market. There are however brokerages that deal in private sales, usually of older boats rather than immediate ex-charter boats. Another source is a UK broker, Chris Hawes www.yachtfractions.co.uk who represents Kiriacoulis in the UK alongisde a brokerage for ex charter yachts and syndicate yachts. You will also find many are listed on www.yachtworld.com

The boats themselves will almost certainly be the "charter" version with the maximum number or berths/cabins for their size because that is what pays in the charter business. They will, however be comprehensively equipped to meet the licencing requirements. To give you an idea, the "extras" on my boat came to about £13k on a £65k basic price (2001 prices). So, expect electric windlass, fridge, liferaft, sailing instruments, autopilot, dinghy, bimini, and so on but probably only basic sails. Some operators replace the original sails after 4 seasons so they should be in good condition.

In my experience - I had my Bav 37 under management for 7 seasons then took it over and brought it back to the UK is that the boats are generally good value as they are as near turnkey as you can get. They are professionally maintained, so although they are not always perfect they tend not be subject to the "bodging" often seen on older private boats.

You will find even in Greece, most ex charter boats are offered ex VAT as the tax is not payable until the boats leave the charter register. You then agree the price and VAT is added. It may be possible as a non-EU resident to avoid paying the tax, but you would have to dicuss this with the vendor. This is one advantage of dealing with one of the big operators as they know what is possible and handle all the formalities.

Hope you find this helpful

 

[jonic]

Ionic - what a demonstration of how to present a boat for sale !

No wonder she sold so quickly.

Thank you.

I made three visits to the boat to get the pictures right and spent probably a day cropping and preparing.

(I must confess to having worked in advertising photography in a previous life)

 

[phantomlady]

Now I'm most probably going to get shot down in flames for saying this....but...surely it's horses for courses?

Sure, anyone who wants to buy a nice, shiny white 'floating caravan' (of which there are loads on the market) to hop around the south coast from marina to marina of a sunny weekend will be looking to buy something empty and gleaming.

Just taking a quick look around where I am at the moment these type of vessels are outnumbered by about 20/1

So, there is actually a market for older, rugged, well equipped, well found, sail anywhere boats surely? They are never going to gleam again, their gel coats might be showing their battle scars somewhat but they are actually well maintained by their owners because their lives may depend on it!

And of course, they actually could very well turn out to be a good buy!

 

[jonic]

Now I'm most probably going to get shot down in flames for saying this....but...surely it's horses for courses?

Sure, anyone who wants to buy a nice, shiny white 'floating caravan' (of which there are loads on the market) to hop around the south coast from marina to marina of a sunny weekend will be looking to buy something empty and gleaming.

Just taking a quick look around where I am at the moment these type of vessels are outnumbered by about 20/1

So, there is actually a market for older, rugged, well equipped, well found, sail anywhere boats surely? They are never going to gleam again, their gel coats might be showing their battle scars somewhat but they are actually well maintained by their owners because their lives may depend on it!

And of course, they actually could very well turn out to be a good buy!

Yes there is a market. I specialise in it, I spent eight years long term cruising in the Med, Caribbean, Bahamas and the USA in boats just like that.

To encourage people to fly they need to be well presented and have an edge over the competition- often that means a keen price- and crucially they need to be presented to their target market. i.e. distance cruisers. So ads need to be placed where those people go or with brokers who live and breath long term cruising,

 

[Saint Louis]

Now I'm most probably going to get shot down in flames for saying this....but...surely it's horses for courses?

Sure, anyone who wants to buy a nice, shiny white 'floating caravan' (of which there are loads on the market) to hop around the south coast from marina to marina of a sunny weekend will be looking to buy something empty and gleaming.

Just taking a quick look around where I am at the moment these type of vessels are outnumbered by about 20/1

So, there is actually a market for older, rugged, well equipped, well found, sail anywhere boats surely? They are never going to gleam again, their gel coats might be showing their battle scars somewhat but they are actually well maintained by their owners because their lives may depend on it!

And of course, they actually could very well turn out to be a good buy!

110% agree with you! When I sell my boat it will be as a rugged ocean-crosser with proven equipment, no gimmicks, at a sensible price.
Any offers?

 

[chinita]

Respect to Jonic.

You have earned your commission.

 

[ukmctc]

The place to sell, depends on the boat. I've been staying up here in the highlands and there are some boats here still for sale that were for sale many years ago. The system here seems tobe over price them, and charge the owner rent etc for keeping it here eventually the brokerage makes more money than the seller.
I'd say sell in the most populated area. Sell where your boat in the area the boat is seen at its best.

 

[Swagman]

We sold ours last August from the Algarve and also anxed about should we try there or bring it home to the UK. It was listed for 2 months and then a German buyer popped up through the Portuguese broker - and we flew down to make sure it was presented properly - and it was sold.

I was happy to pay the broker but IMHO the buyer knew what he wanted and would have found us without the broker being involved - so self selling IMHO worth a go.

FWIW I believe the buyer would have come to the UK to view just as readily as he went to view in Portugal.......but I did know by flying to Lagos he made it obvious he was good prospect...plus the buyer stated he liked the fact it was berthed in Lagos - said it suited his own cruising plans for this year.

Overall I've a sneaky feeling that 40+ foot boats are generally more in demand in the Med than back in N EU and vica versa.

Not sure if this answers anything for you, but good luck with your sale

JOHN

 

[Southern Sailors]

A contract has been signed but the buyer has up to 28 days to survey and trial. During that time the boat cannot be sold to another buyer (even for a higher offer). So it is marked as under offer not sold.

John, OK thanks! Wasn't aware of that process in Europe so its good to know. I just read under offer as sold anyway but wasn't aware that they can't legally accept higher offers unless the buyer rescinds.

The boats themselves will almost certainly be the "charter" version with the maximum number or berths/cabins for their size because that is what pays in the charter business.

They are professionally maintained, so although they are not always perfect they tend not be subject to the "bodging" often seen on older private boats.

Hope you find this helpful

Very helpful, thank you! One of my concerns has been the maximum berths issue with the ex charter yachts I've been perusing. I want an "owners" version with a single bow cabin with ensuite. These are less prevalant in the ex charter brokerages.

Many thanks,
Mike

 

[derk]

I purchased my Beneteau 36 cc two years ago from a German couple who kept the boat in Greece. The transaction went without a hitch. the process went like this-
1. we decided we wanted to keep a boat in Turkey so looked at available boats in Eastern Med.
2. pinned our choice of vessel to 2 or 3 models
3 searched all sources using this criteria and found a suitable boat on a german website.
4. contacted the owners by fax ( they didnt have email but luckily spoke some english)
5 established the condition and inventory by several fax communications and recieved current photos by post.
6 confirmed that negotiations would be in Pounds sterling and they accepted my offer subject to viewing.
7 Did not want to make two journeys to take ownership so had the money standing by for immeadiate transfer so I could move the boat to a boatyard whilst there.
8 flew out and was happy with boat so two days later she was ours ( no survey required) and I moved her to a local boatyard for the winter. We have since sailed her to Turkey.

I would add that right from the start we wanted to purchase a boat already in the Med so we could enjoy the area straight away following our retirement and not have purchase a suitable 'Med type' boat here at extra relative cost and then incour other costs and time getting her to where we wanted her.- Easy jet is far cheaper.

Derk

 

[Lusty Wench]

Bought in USA - selling in Turkey

We bought our Hylas 44 in USA in 2008. We saw the same design in the UK, but the survey didn't go well, so we got our deposit back, and started looking on the internet. We found 3 in USA, and in fact the first we saw, in Virginia, was ideal. The process of buying in USA was simple, and we found a great surveyor.

We had decided to have a long sabbatical, and sail for 4 years, and didn't actually plan to go to the Med. Plans change! www.lustywench.net

We came into the Med and saw some of Spain, Sardinia, Corsica, Italy and her islands, Croatia, Greece and now Turkey - which is fabulous. We don't anticipate that we will find a Turkish buyer, as generally they seem to prefer newer cheaper yachts (that shine a lot) so we hope to find a serious cruiser, who will be prepared to travel out to see her. We hope that a chance to spend a little time with us on board will make it easier for a new owner to learn all they need to - we found that 5 hours with the previous owners and the sea trial with surveyor didn't really cut it!

I reckon our chances of selling are better than my chances of finding a job back in the UK when we do sell.

Tim and Sam