Selling Boat - best geographical location

[Sailfree]

At some stage in the future at 77yrs old we will have to consider selling our 2005 Jeanneau 43 DS.

Appreciate people's opinions as to whether it will be more attractive for a buyer to sell it in Portugal or return it to the UK.

Boat was in Portugal on Brexit exit so it can remain in Portugal for cruising the EU. It has a berth at Nazare Marina at some €1600pa that can be renewed by any new owner. Nazare Marina currently let people live aboard their boats providing boats are mobile - we lived aboard it for 18months while we had a new house built here.


So the fundamental question is whether when I sell it is it best in Portugal as it might be attractive to an EU citizen but if a UK citizen they could only use it as a holiday base for either EU cruising or live aboard in Nazare but for only 90 days every 180 unless they applied for Portuguese residency.


We have Portuguese residency and many UK citizens are still retiring to Portugal and getting a D7? Residence visa upon proof of a regular income of exceeding €780 pm ( health care is covered under a reciprocal arrangement under Brexit agreement) but I am aware of various opinions whether residency is obtainable using a Marina berth but certainly easy to obtain with a property rental agreement.

About to do the yearly maintenance and seriously considering sailing to the Algarve next year or even 3 months around the Med but these travel plans would change to sailing boat back to UK if we decide on a UK sale


I believe I would need to pay VAT (again!!) on boats return to UK. This might be a deciding factor in where to sell it!


I speculate the final answer may be that it all depends on the buyers requirements but so we can plan our future sailing what would you do?

Anyone know if John Rodreguez is still active on this website as I would appreciate his advice but trying to PM him the name was not recognised!

 

[capnsensible]

We sold our liveaboard in the Canaries a couple of years ago. We priced the boat for a quick sale to avoid next year's mooring fees, lift out for antifoul, messing about with deliveries, yadda yadda. Worked for us.

It's all about money. How about looking online for similar yachts and pricing yours at the lower end? The thousands saved may make the sale price attractive to you too?

 

[John_Silver]

Seem to remember that John Rodriguez goes by the name of jonic on here. Though haven't noticed any recent posts.

 

[Stingo]

@Sailfree where is your boat currently flagged?

I'm open to correction here, but if it is UK flagged, don't you have to take it out of the EU every 180 days, which would cancel the EU Vat paid status? If you jumped through the hoops of reregistering it in say Portugal, this might make a huge difference in the costs a potential EU buyer will or will not have to pay.

Hopefully, someone will be along shortly to correct me.

 

[Tranona]

First thing. Your boat has both EU AND UK VAT paid status provided you bring it back to the UK under your ownership using the Returned Goods Relief (RGR) rules. There used to be a 3 year limitation but this was removed following pressure from the CA and RYA to accommodate people just like you. Very straightforward - you report to customs in the normal way if you are coming by sea and get confirmation from them of return. If coming by road or ship your carrier will do this for you. The guidance is here www.gov.uk/guidance/sailing-a-pleasure-craft-that-is-arriving-in-the-uk You will a mention of a HMRC unit in Portsmouth which deals with this aspect and worth talking in advance to them about the procedure so you get it properly documented. You are then free to sell the boat in the UK. Additionally you can still sell the boat to an EU resident provided you take it over the channel to complete the sale using the EU RGR rules. If you do sell to a UK resident with the boat in the EU they can use it throughout the EU including selling it without any restrictions. They can keep it on the SSR as registration has nothing to do with VAT status.

If you choose to sell it in Portugal it loses its UK VAT paid status even if it is sold to a UK resident. In theory there is no problem with its VAT status but some states and their customs still have difficulty in coming to terms with the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement that determines your boat's status. As you can imagine Portugal is said to be one of those states in this category so it would be wise to also clear the process with local customs if you do sell there. Equally for the same reasons local buyers may be reluctant to consider buying the boat, for example if they are unable to register the boat in Portugal. A good broker should be aware of the process and the potential pitfalls and be able to deal with them.

As to where it is best to sell, my first choice would be Portugal because such boats are in demand there and you can keep an eye on it.. Equally it will sell quickly in the UK as there is a real shortage of boats of this type and age. However you may find the cost of getting it here wipes out any potential price premium. You may find this thread useful from somebody faced with a similar problem
forums.ybw.com/threads/boat-reimported-to-uk-…-no-problems.601141/

BTW John is not so active these days as he had a period of ill health. He does still broker and has a couple of nice boats on the books at the moment.

 

[Sailfree]

We sold our liveaboard in the Canaries a couple of years ago. We priced the boat for a quick sale to avoid next year's mooring fees, lift out for antifoul, messing about with deliveries, yadda yadda. Worked for us.

It's all about money. How about looking online for similar yachts and pricing yours at the lower end? The thousands saved may make the sale price attractive to you too?

Thanks for reply.

Not so much interested in maximising price but where geographically will it get the maximum interest from buyers. Be easier to sell it in Nazare.

Pleased to hear you sold your boat in Canaries easily - I assume your boat was UK registered?

 

[capnsensible]

Thanks for reply.

Not so much interested in maximising price but where geographically will it get the maximum interest from buyers. Be easier to sell it in Nazare.

Pleased to hear you sold your boat in Canaries easily - I assume your boat was UK registered?

Hiya, yes, UK registered but for various reasons we imported the yacht and paid Spanish and Canarian taxes. Wasn't a huge amount. A retired Canarian fisherman bought the boat for he and his family to enjoy and he intended to flag in Poland! Lots of Spaniards do that, apparently.

Edit spelling check corrected.

 

[Sailfree]

Tranona

Thanks for your long and informative reply.

Trust ot will also help others in a similar situation.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Leave it where it is IMO. @Tranona post is spot on.

If a U.K. buyer is interested in having it in the U.K. then they could pay to transport it to the U.K. and the sale could be completed in the U.K. after you have obtained U.K. RGR. - they then get a U.K. VAT paid boat.

If a U.K. or E.U. buyer want's to buy it and keep it in the EU then it can be sold with EU VAT Paid, just make sure the paperwork is in order.

I recently sold a U.K. registered boat in the E.U. with VAT paid to a Slovenien. There was some confusion from both Croatian and Slovenien authorities about it's VAT status due to it being U.K. registered, but a spedition company sorted out the paperwork for a very reasonable €27 and the sale went through as VAT Paid. This was arranged by the broker.

A U.K. resident can also keep a non-VAT paid boat in the E.U. under temporary admission - they would just have to check it in and out every 18 months - which is a simple procedure which I used to do in Croatia before they joined the E.U. So a U.K. buyer who later decides to visit the E.U. would just need to use the temporary admission process and would not have to pay any additional VAT or import duties.

 

[25931]

Hiya, yes, UK registered but for various reasons we imported the yacht and paid Spanish and Canarian taxes. Wasn't a huge amount. A retired Canarian fisherman bought the boat for he and his family to enjoy and he intended to flag in Poland! Lots of Spaniards do that, apparently.

Edit spelling check corrected.

There are Polish flags to be seen here.