Sell up & sail!?

[catblue]

First of all - thanks to mandlmaunder as well as Talbot for their comments re Leopard cats - comments please then on your own?

Who out there have truly sold up and sailed? We have our house on the market and once it sells plan to buy a cat (possibly Leopard 42ft, but think we need to check out others) but in doing so will probably be left with next-to-no capital for a house (certainly not in the UK!). We are toying with the idea of spending some time cruising, med maybe on to Caribbean - before embarking on some chartering.

We have the usual concerned friends/family who urge us not to give up bricks and mortar and leave the property market, and to be honest seeing the increases in UK property prices over the last couple of years we can understand and even share their concerns.

Our ambition/dream came to us 5 years ago, but it was only joint redundancies that enabled us to set off on our new career path (still kept the house - rented it out) and embarked on relevant training. Now have yachtmaster/cruising instructor, Day Skipper and STCW quals. Worked on flotilla last summer (Skipper/Hostess) in the Ionian.

Any advice/suggestions/encouragement?

Thanks in advance

 

[ChrisE]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

Well, we took a year off a while ago, sold the big house anf bought a small flat as a base both for us and our kids, so not quite what you are proposing. However....

..we bumped into no end of people in the Canaries, Caribbean and Bahamas who had sold up and sailed and were really grumpy. It seems that after about 10 years or so most get fed up with an itinerant life and want to put some roots down somewhere then find that they are sitting on a fast depreciating asset with no route home.

I'm sure others will say different but I know that I wouldn't burn all of my bridges.

 

[bbilly]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

Sound advice. Keep a place somewhere. Sooner or later you'll need a roof over your heads. Small, low maint and a possible source of income.

 

[Oliveoyl]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

Our plan is to sell the crumbling heap near Brussels, spend spring and autumn on the boat, and to buy a v small and rustic place in Slovenia for summer and winter. The maths should just about work out. Family is also a bit narky about us not wanting to keep a pied à terre in BE, but Slovenia is a short cheap flight away.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Like others, we sold the big house, got a flat and went to see the sea. After 3 years we are now mostly in the UK but see that as an interregnum until we get back to cruising full time.

I have a theory that in the Caribbean at least there is a “quarter life” where about a quarter of each year’s ‘intake’ is gone within 12 months (mostly home, some through the Panama), another quarter of the remainder the next year etc. Of the hundreds of boats we’ve met there many have done several years but not that many have done over a decade, so there does seem to be some kind of limit.

I think many couples are like us in that the bloke wants to go sailing and the wife tags along. But then the bloke discovers you don’t do that much sailing as a liveaboard, but you do do an awful lot of boat fixing. Meanwhile the wife discovers a very sociable and supportive community. Gross generalisation of course, and I know some couples where the wife said “I’m going sailing – you coming?”, but in our experience it’s mostly the blokes who pull the plug when they find it just too much hard work, have health issues etc. I expect my friend in Bonaire who has spent a over a week trying (and so far failing) to fix his genset is having a "sell the boat" day right now.

So I’d urge you not to lose some kind of bricks and mortar foothold, because though prices look unlikely to rise in the near future, you never know. You don’t want to end up like some of the boaters you see in the Caribbean stuck on a decaying yacht with no money and no chance to rebuild a life ashore.

As to boats, we are very happy with our Fountaine Pajot Belize, as have been all the other Belize owners we’ve met, and owners of Athenas. Lagoon owners seem happy too, as do Mantas (and the dollar is cheap right now of course). Personally I find the SA boats heavy and not that good value, but it’s very much a matter of personal preference.

You don’t say whether you intend to buy new or used. I’d urge you to go the latter route. Ideally buy a boat that someone fitted out intelligently for blue water cruising and then never used. We got lucky like that. You never get back the extras you put in and though we still had to do a lot to get it the way we wanted it (it never ends in fact) it was only half a ton of money, not the full ton.

We have plenty of friends having a wonderful time in 20 and 30 year old monos, and there is a lot to be said for very old boats. However in my view catamaran design has improved hugely in recent years, and from a comfort and accommodation point of view newer cats are that much better. I would have been happy to go to sea in our old Snowgoose, but can’t say it took much persuasion on my wife’s part to ‘upgrade’ to the Belize.

When looking at liveaboard cats for warm climes do think about the ventilation and heat issues. The older boats with sloping coachroofs do tend to cook and be poorly ventilated. This is where the newer French (and SA) designs do better. We often sit inside our saloon as it’s cooler – and there are not many old cats or new monos where people would say that.

Do think about buying in the Caribbean. There are plenty of cats for sail in Trinidad and Martinique. They are harder to sell there so a deal can often be cut.

Of course if you are serious about chartering, you'll need a newer boat. But it is hard work and many try it and then stop after a year or two. But the Maunders can tell you more about that...

 

[Foxy]

Just get a move on! we sold up and went and its fantastic fun. Sure its challenging and sometimes a bit scarey but the people you meet and the things you see make it an experience of a lifetime. Message if you need any help.

 

[mandlmaunder]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

Opinion on own cat ( a Solaris Sunstar 36'...of which there are only 11 originals): comfortable, good cruiser, extremely sound in rough weather (but does get a bottom-slapping in larger waves), is only designed for max. 4 people to live onboard long-term, but find it perfect for 2 and manageable for 4 short-term. Only comment - very low headroom (5'10), but fine for us shorties!

Maintenance costs around $5000 pa, but we don't do marinas at all unless hauling out.

We kept our house in UK for 2 years and rented it out. In the end it was a PIA and cost us as much as it made in upkeep/agents fees etc. Sold it and pugged away money in bank to forget (rainy day fund). Don't regret that move so far, but don't want to return to yUK and property ladder!

Have been in 'Cribian' for 3+ years now and have no problems finding work - you have 'transportable skills, too, so should be fine. We chartered (company boats) for 15 months - had a great time, didn't make an awful lot of money but living free. It's a v. hard life, though - at other peoples beck and call 24 hours a day is wearing and wearying! Have gone back to 'on-land' skills and now have evenings/weekends for ourselves. Bliss!

If we were to go charter again, we would put own boat under management with a charter company and go run someone elses boat - double income!

Our original plan was just to sail for 2 years then go back to UK, after 6 months we realised that we didn't ever want to go back and would do whatever we needed to to continue cruising.

Sorry.....rambling on now! PM if you want any further info/details!

 

[Carolwildbird]

I'm in the same position - well not quite. I've actually sold up and have the money in the bank, and have been pondering for the last six months whether to buy a small place as well as my liveaboard boat, or to just do the latter and keep the rest in the bank.

Its been a huge transition for me - I've been so indoctrinated that "owning" property is the right thing to do, that to rent rather than buying has been odd. But I'm coming to terms with it now- especially as I rent a much nicer house than I could afford to buy with my capital, and cover more than the rental by the interest on the money. I can decide to move at relatively short notice, at little cost.. etc etc. .

And I've been studying house price info. with some interest. At the moment house prices- despite the hype - are not going up very much (less than interest in savings accounts- maybe other than in London) and there is a real prospect of a house price fall (like in the early 1990s) or at least stagnation. So as far as I'm concerned, now is an excellent time to "sell up and sail"

I have decided that if I get back and can't buy somewhere, then I'm happy renting. My rental experience has been fantastic so far.... cuts out all the hassle and cost of house buying, together with, relatively speaking, saving me money. Why do most European countries thrive on rentals? Seems like its mainly us brits who believe we have to own things to be secure!

there's a great quote in Alva Simpson's book (attributed to Morris West)

"it costs so much to be a full human being. One has to abandon altogether the search for security, and to reach out to the risk of living with both arms. "

Now all I have to do is find my Boat!

 

[mandlmaunder]

Carol.....all the best in your search for your boat/new home! It's not so much the abandonment of security as being confident that you can find it elsewhere.

Where are you planning to sail?

 

[HoratioHB]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

We are similar but different, boat delivery is only a few weeks away, but I was lucky enough to have bought a small student house for my daughter at University and she has now graduated. Don't know whether to sell it and bank the dosh and hope the house market goes down or hang on to it and hope the market continues upwards. If we sell we will probably buy a small flat near the rest of the family, but as we don't know whether we can survive on my pension yet, I still don't know whether we will need to rent it out. And then there is the issue of storing our stuff as letting furnished is more difficult aaaarrrrgghhhh. Who knows after our first year we might buy out in the carib - prices look quite good. I guess the fun bit will be finding out!!

 

[Carolwildbird]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

Where do I plan to sail? well this year its round Britain/ Ireland (on somebody else's boat) and then next year on MY BOAT (OK God/dess deliver it!) its a shakedown cruise (ireland/britain and maybe Norway) before down to the canaries and then of course - maybe winter 2008/9 -over to the Carribean. If it all goes well..... into the Pacific thereafter...

I am an unusual beast in that I am female and (recently) single- mainly because my ex. hubby hated adventure (do we have shorthand for this- instead of SWMBO, maybe HWHA - "he who hated adventure") My ex was settling down to pipe and slippers at premature age. So all these stories about "persuading the wife" ring a bit hollow- oh for a partner who wanted to sail! I've decided if I wait for that I'd never do it. I'm not the only one- have three female friends in similar positions. Hopefully(it looks very likely) one of them will join me, so we'll be two wild women from Dartmoor adventuring on a boat. Watch out world!

 

[LadyJessie]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

Good for you! Go girl!

Hope to meet you somewhere in a nice warm anchorage. I could recommend the Med as a very good warm up (pun intended) before setting off on your worldwide cruise.

 

[chrisarcher]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

We sold up completely in the end, although investigated the renting out our UK property route, we decided to sell completely, for a fresh start. I spent a long time in the plannig phase and as such had very definate plans as to what we wanted. I am also fortunate that a life at sea is nothing new to me, so at least I had a good idea of what to expect! We also knew we would have to charter to ensure we had the funds available to keep our new home and maintain a reasonable lifestyle.

The most enjoyable times are spent with friends both new and old and having the ability to be able to welcome small groups on board really has made such a difference to our life afloat. Both of us wish we had done it sooner!!!

We have plans for a circumnavigation in a few years time, but we are contant at the moment to stay in the Med and enjoy all that it has to offer. We certainly don't miss the UK, but it is nice to pop back ocassionally and stay with relatives for a short while, however it is not long before we want to get back 'home'!!

I take my hat off to anyone who has taken the plunge so to speak, and made the transition to a liveabord. It takes guts, whatever the means taken to get there. We have no regrets and we are looking forward to meeting many more like minded people in our travels.

Go for it. and don't look back!!!

Chris & Elaine

 

[HoratioHB]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not the only one- have three female friends in similar positions. Hopefully(it looks very likely) one of them will join me, so we'll be two wild women from Dartmoor adventuring on a boat. Watch out world!

[/ QUOTE ]

Will you marry me?

Oh hang, on on SWMBO might not like that.

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[charles_reed]

A lot of variables, which will determine the decision.

1. Current age - there is a definite point (between 75-80) when most are unable to continue the cruising lifestyle. I've seen plenty around the Med, unable to move their boat, which is falling to bits around them and desperate for a medical safety net.
If you have a chance of re-establishing a life ashore, either because you have a pied a terre, a re-entry into earning or sufficient bankroll to re-enter the housing ladder, there's no logical reason to fight to retain your place on the property ladder. In any case I suspect the housing roller coaster is about to enter a downturn - it certainly has in the States and probably won't bottom there until late 2008.

2. Disillusion with the lifestyle - occurs after about 10-15 years for most people. OK if you have the opportunity to step off, hell if you don't.

3. Family - either aged parents who linger and need attention or grandchildren arriving, which increases the importance of making visits back home and extends the period required. Even the best of friends and most affectionate of relatives can find their hospitality strained.

4. Whether you really need a 42' catamaran with all the belts and whistles or can make do with a more modest monohull, which will be easier to berth and far cheaper to maintain.

5. A house with garden is a burden (especially the way local taxes are going), far better a flat, with less demanding upkeep.

6. Belongings - no land base, no storage, no mementos.

In the final analysis you'll make your own decision, subjectively from the heart and the rationalise it objectively.

Whatever you do, good luck and happy sailing.

 

[Sea Devil]

I spent 10 years living aboard mainly but also sometimes getting off the boat to go and do some work. Loved every minute of it but did need to get off the boat sometimes - have a holiday!. Want to go again when circumstances permit, to Brazil and round the straights of Magellan to the South Pacific again but....

I can imagine a time when I will no longer want to live in a boat.

For most, as previously posted by others it is around 10 years that makes people feel they have done it, got the T shirt and want to move onto something else.... I had property which was rented out and I earned money at my trade now and then so it worked well for me. The financially hard part is not buying the boat, it is making enough money to support yourself... I did it on around £200 per week all in - maintenance, air fares home and visiting places. I am so glad that when the time came, I still had an investment in bricks and mortar. House prices rise in most countries except perhaps Spain at the moment.

You mention chartering as a way of generating an income - very very difficult to get clients unless you register with a big (Caribbean) charter agents and they only take on real luxury smart boats. Again its not doing the chartering that's difficult its finding the clients via advertising which costs a fortune and is not economical for a one boat setup.. So you must use charter agents and they only want the best - do you have the best?

Having sounded down about it let me add - it is a wonderful life style - wandering the Oceans seeing far away places with strange sounding names .........

Michael

 

[wanderlust]

Hey, you dont need to change your old Snowgoose to stay cool. We spent 04/05 in the Caribbean in our old Snowgoose. We insulated the whole boat to a high standard as part of an internal refit previously. It paid dividends when in the hot Caribbean. Nice and cool below. We also have external covers that go over all the windows. Perfect for Caribbean life

 

[badman]

It is great whilst you are healthy but awful if you fall ill It is best to have some where to go and get well or die in comfort.

 

[Rhian]

First post and thanks for all the information I've been reading over the last few months.

Similar thoughts on this topic - really keen to go and so is my husband luckily but trying to be 'sensible'! We sold our beloved S.O. 34.2 in December (hence the username) and hope to exchange on our house in the next fortnight - fingers crossed.

Then ... rent a while, keep the cash somewhere and see what the housing market does. Tempting to take the cash and buy our liveaboard now and go, or sensibly buy a little place to rent out? That will mean we have to work another 3 years to raise the cash to buy the boat and we are rarely sailing at the moment. Very frustrating!

 

[Vanilla]

Re: Sell up & sail!?

Oh Carol in Devon - how I empathise! Although most people seem to think women hold men back, my experience says otherwise. God I'm envious of the sort of SWMBOs reported on these forums.....How do they get their own way???? Where have I gone wrong?

So many middle-aged men settle for the TV and slippers, sitting behind the bunker, and popping up from time to time, saying "What you wanna do is..." (while doing sweet FA themselves) and minus the balls to do it themselves.

My widowed mother keeps telling me how all the women she meets are gustsy and fearless, trying new things/experiences while leaving the boring old man at home. I'm just a fair weather weekend cruiser, though dream of a liveaboard life.

Got into it all via my partner who used the carrot of "one day we'll get a boat". I naively believed him and started looking for one (having learnt on his dinghy & charters/friends boats). He has found every excuse under the sun to reject each and every boat we have viewed. Firstly looked at monohulls, then when we seemed to be in agreement and with few excuses left not to take the plunge, he changed the criteria to multihull, then to more tweaky racing-types, then to cruisers, then bilge/lifting keel etc etc. Plus a whole lot of other "classes" inbetween. Every broker in the South East knows us well. Every one start showing their boats and trying to persuade "madam" that it would do nicely... "just look at the interior". With barely suppressed rage I explain that it is "sir" who needs convincing as I am ready and willing and holding my chequebook.

Well I finally snapped and signed up (as I'm paying) for a new boat (yes I know...stupid and all that but you only live once and if it goes pear-shaped financially, I'll have to sell). But would rather have had a go than forever wondered "If only...?"). I thought a boat that was actually on order and was going to happen, might have brought him to his senses and that he would get enthused and lose his patholological fear of decision-making...HUH not a bit of it. Won't discuss it, won't help make choices about options etc..where to keep her etc etc. Keep telling him there are loads of eligible (sounding)male sailors on the forum who would count their lucky stars to have a SWMBO who actually buys the boat! Reckon he's deaf as well as stupid.... and on his final warning!

Good to get that off my chest. I wish you very well and am full of admiration for going it alone and ditching the impediment between you and a fulfilling life. BEST OF LUCK CAROL. Keep us posted.