Self steering; which is the better system?

[timmygobang]

The Monitor requires additional kit to use as a rudder.
http://www.selfsteer.com/partsService/monitor/index.php
M-RUD

Thanks. I've only had experience of cruising with a hydrovane on my friends boat, which performed brilliantly. Shall consider 'The monitor' when the time comes when I need to get one

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Autopilot first, closely followed by a wind vane. A good Autopilot for all kinds of sailing and a wind vane for persistent rough weather and as a back up.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I bought my latest boat having 2 seperate tiller pilots available.

I fitted the Monitor windvane from my previous boat a few months later.

For short distance port hopping the Monitor is not an expenditure that I would stretch to. Its main purpose for me is for those longer day sails and beyond.

As the windvane uses no electrical power, unless a tiller pilot is fitted to it, you will need no extra electrical charging or batteries. You do however have the extra
£3.5K+ of scaffolding hanging off the back. This is not ideal for some who also like a swim platform from a sugar scoop and all that steel astern may not be an attractive or practical solution. Plus the fact that each time you enter a fee paying mooring you are likely to be charged for the extra length.

All auto steering systems much prefer the boat to be balanced .......i.e. sails set to have minimum weather helm is my preference.

On a very long trip of days or weeks, there will be wear issues with some systems.
Those windvanes which incorporate rope/cord connections need to be checked occassionally to ensure that the pulleys are all in line and friction is avoided. All moving parts require a small amount of lubrication, otherwise they are maintenance free. I've used my Monitor for 7 seasons with no visible wear to the rope.
Windvanes with rope/cord connections have the lines coming to the cockpit to attach to either the wheel or the tiller. Lines in the cockpit can be a problem.

When miles offshore steering with a windvane in clear water, there is no requirement to constantly check your course in relation to the wind. The windvane will keep a constant heading off the wind as set. On my Monitor this is set within a couple of seconds.

When steering for days or more with an electrical autopilot you will eventually require some form of elecrical storage or charge. I have both a wind generator and solar panels and just 3 120AH batteries. 1 for the engine and 2 for domestic. These have not required recharging from the engine if I've been using the tiller pilot all day. Banks of solar panels and windmills are not everybodys cup of tea. Having to recharge batteries via the engine is one of my pet hates.

When sailing down wind in a sea, I find that the Monitor is favourable to the tiller pilot, it seems to react quicker and keeps a better course. The tiller pilot makes noise. Some skippers find downwind sailing a problem with all auto systems.... again a question of boat balance for the conditions

 

[Oldhairy]

I have a Hydrovane wind vane, a Raymarine wheel pilot and a Aquair generator.
Auto-pilot or not the Aquair is great as it keeps up with my general power usage and a couple of hours under auto-pilot.
Hydrovane is very good, if a bit fiddly to balance the boat perfectly. However, when the the seas are really rough the blade comes out of the water so it is then back to the auto-pilot and main rudder.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I have a Hydrovane wind vane, a Raymarine wheel pilot and a Aquair generator.
Auto-pilot or not the Aquair is great as it keeps up with my general power usage and a couple of hours under auto-pilot.
Hydrovane is very good, if a bit fiddly to balance the boat perfectly. However, when the the seas are really rough the blade comes out of the water so it is then back to the auto-pilot and main rudder.

Hi, ........... nice boat the Rival 34.....

Have you had any shark attacks to the Aquair whilst in southern waters?

S.

 

[Oldhairy]

Hi, ........... nice boat the Rival 34.....

Have you had any shark attacks to the Aquair whilst in southern waters?

S.

None, it seems that as long as the black coating is intact the sharks ignore it. He states clasping i bit of wood.

 

[geem]

Both for me. I have a below deck autopilot that is power hungry. I have Windpilot to fit and also a Duogen. Also have solar and generator. That should cover all the bases!

 

[Sybarite]

Vendee Globe fleet essentially chose your option 2. Not without problems, but traditional windvanes are old technology.

Not so say they don't have a place, but the circumstances in which a windvane would be the preferred option are becoming, IMHO, limited.

It is interesting that you limit the charging mechanism to ONLY towed generator. Is there a reason for that? If that were the only means to charge it might change the equation.

It was following an article on Attainable Adventure Cruising. It was his preferred set-up because it keeps working even if there were no wind (air generator) or no sun (solar panels). But I don't think it would be an either/or situation.

I don't think wind vanes do much for the aesthetics of a boat nor do you see them on eg the Vendée fleet. This makes me think that the pilots have reached a satisfactory level of reliability ( I wonder what marque they use?) and there remains the question of keeping them powered up. In the articled referred to, the author reckons that he loses 1/4 knt because of it. He had sailed over 10000 miles like that and hadn't lost any generators to the sharks!

 

[Koeketiene]

I don't think wind vanes do much for the aesthetics of a boat nor do you see them on eg the Vendée fleet. This makes me think that the pilots have reached a satisfactory level of reliability ( I wonder what marque they use?)

Most Vendee boats had a B&G autopilot set up - though there were some NKE ones too.

 

[silver-fox]

Two possibilities; which would you choose ? :

1) Traditional windvane
2) Autopilot kept charged by a trailing generator.

What sailing do you envisage?
What size boat do you have and is it tiller or wheel steering?
Do you have a skeg or keel protecting the rudder?

If you are going blue water sailing then you can have nn x autopilots but if your battery bank has had it so have all your autopilots.
The same applies if you take rudder damage and cant use that.

A completely independent system such as Hydrovane or similar offers genuine resilience in these circumstances.

 

[RupertW]

For an old fashioned boat design then I would have gone for both ideally, but as others have said, with stern-to mooring and a swimming platform the stern is the main thoroughfare - so no scaffolding please. In a similar way dinghy davits are on the way out unless very high indeed which isn't great for windage or CoG.

 

[uxb]

I would also say both - used in different circumstances. My dilemma is slightly different. I have a (new to me) boat with an Aries windvane fitted - it is in excellent condition. I have a Hydrovane in the spare room at home. Which one should I go with??

Try the Aries and if you like it, sell the Hydrovane and buy an autopilot....

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

In a similar way dinghy davits are on the way out unless very high indeed which isn't great for windage or CoG.

to partially contradict that.... my neighbour in my 'Yacht Haven' )), has just had £3K+ of gantry fitted to his sugar scooped stern 38footer to enable him to have davits and solar panels fitted up out of the way.

 

[Tarka1]

I would also say both - used in different circumstances. My dilemma is slightly different. I have a (new to me) boat with an Aries windvane fitted - it is in excellent condition. I have a Hydrovane in the spare room at home. Which one should I go with??

Go for the Aries and sell me your Hydrovane

 

[PTB]

Vendee Globe fleet essentially chose your option 2. Not without problems, but traditional windvanes are old technology.

I read somewhere that modern really fast boats that accelerate rapidly are not suited to windvane gears anyway as the apparent wind direction is always changing. Not such an issue with a cruising boat laden with gear where old technology can rule OK I guess.

 

[bbg]

Vendee Globe fleet essentially chose your option 2. Not without problems, but traditional windvanes are old technology.

I read somewhere that modern really fast boats that accelerate rapidly are not suited to windvane gears anyway as the apparent wind direction is always changing. Not such an issue with a cruising boat laden with gear where old technology can rule OK I guess.

You are right. Windvanes can only steer to the apparent wind, which doesn't work with high performance boats. Going downwind as the boat accelerates, she will bear away and keep bearing away until she slows down. At which time she will be 20 degrees by the lee.
During my transat my top speed of over 17 knots was done with the pilot, while I was below making dinner.
For a cruising boat on long passages in the tradewinds a windvane might be ok. For versatility (steering to compass, waypoint, true wind) and for high performance boats a pilot is the only way to go.

 

[capnsensible]

Its all very subjective, though, don't you think?

We have a centre cockpit yacht and fitted a hydrovane and have a tiller pilot for light airs. Our second Atlantic trip with the two of us was bliss after the problems with a belt driven autopilot on our first circuit. Often two handed and sometimes four and with the autopilot mostly broken we hand steered an awful lot. 3 hours on, 3 off for a few weeks means you get really good at it!! Also inventive in taking a leak......

Have taken a yacht transat a couple of times with a full crew, got them to steer by hand for practice but nice knowing a good autopilot was available. Once on the return trip however with fewer on board, the engine starter motor packed in so went for nearly a week to the azores with no electric, do consider that.

Have taken another boat over 3 up, belt broke 3 days from Antigua, spent hours trying to mend it, gave up. Same boat on way back blew exhaust flange on heat exchanger, 4 days hand steering 3 up.

Also had 2 completely incident free trips auto all the way!!

Delivered a yacht from Lanzarotte to Solent, towed generator. Have you ever tried to recover one when the wind gets up quickly? Need a flippin crane.

Hydrovane for me. You can offset them from centre with sugar scoop, works perfectly and you can still dangle yer tootsies!

Good sailing whatever you choose.

CS

 

[fishermantwo]

I use a home made SS replica of a monitor. I fail to see why people are reluctant to use windvanes inshore. I use mine in a river on occasions, at sea when I tack and intend to stay on that tack for more than a hundred yards or so I engage the vane. Takes seconds to alter the vane angle, I use a Porsche 928 timing belt that's in easy reach of my normal helming position and jam cleats on the tiller. Yesterday I was motoring down the river with the main up and no wind and I was experimenting with the vane. It steered the boat with just the relative wind over the deck. It did wander but that was the effect of the current. With no wind and flat water I reckon the vane would steer the boat at 4 knots of relative wind over the deck, ample power from the servo. Certainly good enough to leave the helm for short periods.

 

[puddock]

Which would I choose? Autopilot over windvane because it still works when there's no wind. The trailing generator I dont know enough about to comment on.

Hmmm... or Windvane over Autopilot because it still works when there's no electricity???
Personally, I have one of each (though I haven't got around to fitting the windvane yet )

 

[timmygobang]

On our atlantic trip we used the Hydrovane to climb back onboard instead of a ladder when we went for a swim.Quite handy actually

Also some friends had to hand steer all the way after suffering some damage after a windy night. I can't imagine hand steering for 2 weeks straight