Barbarella
New Member
Hi there, I plan to sail around the UK and Ireland this summer. Where can I buy (on-line) secondhand Admiralty or Imray paper charts? Under 5 years old. I would update them using Notices to Mariners. Thanks. Cheers,
Secondhand paper charts
- Thread starter Barbarella
- Start date
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
Kinsale373
Well-Known Member
I know you stipulate Paper and Secondhand , but have you considered a cheap pad and the admiralty package for UK and Ireland from " Visit My Harbour" It has all the charts you'll need for small money. You could always buy a few of the Admiralty paper charts covering a large area of coastline for backup. I've found it to be an excellent product and amazing value.
Kinsale 373
Kinsale 373
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
I can't understand why, now that we are well into the 21st century, that people opt to use 19th century technology. Especially when considering using 2nd hand charts and all the faff involved in updating them!
A tablet or even a phone with GPS, a nav app and VMH or the like charts plus a built in USB charge socket and you are ready to go.
Is it because people are technophobes, or do they think that GPS will suddenly fail? If it did, the ramifications would be far more than a yachty having to rely on DR!
From previous threads, I know that there are many who would disagree
A tablet or even a phone with GPS, a nav app and VMH or the like charts plus a built in USB charge socket and you are ready to go.
Is it because people are technophobes, or do they think that GPS will suddenly fail? If it did, the ramifications would be far more than a yachty having to rely on DR!
From previous threads, I know that there are many who would disagree
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
I would concur about utility of second hand charts. No new rocks and islands appear and any bridges and barrages are fairly visible. A few nav marks change but mostly in BC its change from lateral to cardinal or vice versa.
A notebook plus nav charts on your iphone is a good alternative for normal use, and much handy to take to pub mid trip for planning the next leg.
I would however not be without some paper covering large areas. Iphones get dropped in sea (done that), powerpacks and ipads fail. The very electrics of a boat may fail (had that too), and one still wants to find safe haven. Low tech paper and compass will get one home.
A notebook plus nav charts on your iphone is a good alternative for normal use, and much handy to take to pub mid trip for planning the next leg.
I would however not be without some paper covering large areas. Iphones get dropped in sea (done that), powerpacks and ipads fail. The very electrics of a boat may fail (had that too), and one still wants to find safe haven. Low tech paper and compass will get one home.
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
It's all to do with"What if".
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Having almost completed my 2020 updates, I assure you that the majority have been new rocks and contour changes, or rather surveyed for the first time. Physical features such as fish farms are the second biggest change. Massive mooring buoys for cruise ships have been popular additions and a significant number of special marks have been added or deleted.
I agree something like Memory Maps with the UK chart package, or the Navionics App is a solid solution for the OP.
Why all the rocks appearing and changes to contours? The majority are inshore in shallower waters where yachts may sail and I suspect folks are simply keen to inform the U.K. Hydrographic Office after their new kit has accurately surveyed the sea bed!
oldmanofthehills
Well-Known Member
In the Bristol Channel depths change on an 19 year cycle. No chart is fully up to date for more than 2 seasons. Thats what depth guages/lumps of lead are for. The general locus of the banks however does not change.
I agree special marks may appear but they are visible hazards not aids to general navigation - one must simply not hit them, avoid fish farm or the newly marked wreck etc.
I would base my day to day on electronic, but having had failures I always have large area charts to get me to safety even if it means I have keep an extra alert lookout if I ever use them, to avoid running into new obstructions.
When I finally complete my tour of the Small Islands I dont intend to get new detailed paper charts of the whole area, thus wont advise others to do so
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I'm with oldmanofthehills on this: I find paper charts very useful, and don't find them being out of date makes them useless.
These days I do most of my navigation underway by a combination of eyeball and a chart plotter with the whole of W. Europe on it. But I do like to have at least small scale paper charts available, in case the plotter fails for some reason. That would at least enable me to get back to port.
I also find such paper charts much easier than the (modest-sized screen) plotter for 'strategic' course planning, checking for depths and hazards on a route, identifying Plan B options, etc.
I buy the Reeds Almanac every few years, usually when I go on a longer trip, so that I've got reasonably up to date details of ports and their approaches, etc.
Both most of my paper charts and my plotter chart are 'out of date'. I have a good selection of paper charts of southern Britain and Brittany, northern France & the North Sea, and some southern Ireland, but it would be too expensive for me to replace them all. I occasionally buy a new chart for some particular reason, e.g. new wind farms and TSS changes in the North Sea. Unfortunately my Standard Horizon CP300i plotter software is too old to accept another chart update, I was told. I consider my charts as a general guide only, rather than expect them to exactly represent bouyage, etc. etc., and navigate accordingly. Rocky coasts don't change much, and on the East Coast depths, for example, are to be expected to change, though as oldmanofthehills says, the general layout doesn't (except over a much longer timescale).
If I were going round the UK and Ireland I would be content to use my plotter and its out of date chart; buy or borrow some mainly small scale paper charts of areas I don't have coverage of, to supplement my existing paper charts; buy the latest copy of Reeds; and investigate the potential and cost for downloading a set of up-to-date charts on my (not suitable for active navigation) laptop.
I already have the brilliant OS app on my phone which, for about £25 p.a., gives me all UK OS maps, which can help inform coastal cruising, but would be particularly useful for walks ashore, hunter/gathering stores, and finding pubs, etc.
p.s. I omitted to mention pilot guides. I have old ones for southern Britain and SW Ireland, but would like to buy or borrow ones for Scotland and the rest of Ireland for such a trip, though I don't consider them essential and the lack of any of them would not deter me from embarking on such a trip.
These days I do most of my navigation underway by a combination of eyeball and a chart plotter with the whole of W. Europe on it. But I do like to have at least small scale paper charts available, in case the plotter fails for some reason. That would at least enable me to get back to port.
I also find such paper charts much easier than the (modest-sized screen) plotter for 'strategic' course planning, checking for depths and hazards on a route, identifying Plan B options, etc.
I buy the Reeds Almanac every few years, usually when I go on a longer trip, so that I've got reasonably up to date details of ports and their approaches, etc.
Both most of my paper charts and my plotter chart are 'out of date'. I have a good selection of paper charts of southern Britain and Brittany, northern France & the North Sea, and some southern Ireland, but it would be too expensive for me to replace them all. I occasionally buy a new chart for some particular reason, e.g. new wind farms and TSS changes in the North Sea. Unfortunately my Standard Horizon CP300i plotter software is too old to accept another chart update, I was told. I consider my charts as a general guide only, rather than expect them to exactly represent bouyage, etc. etc., and navigate accordingly. Rocky coasts don't change much, and on the East Coast depths, for example, are to be expected to change, though as oldmanofthehills says, the general layout doesn't (except over a much longer timescale).
If I were going round the UK and Ireland I would be content to use my plotter and its out of date chart; buy or borrow some mainly small scale paper charts of areas I don't have coverage of, to supplement my existing paper charts; buy the latest copy of Reeds; and investigate the potential and cost for downloading a set of up-to-date charts on my (not suitable for active navigation) laptop.
I already have the brilliant OS app on my phone which, for about £25 p.a., gives me all UK OS maps, which can help inform coastal cruising, but would be particularly useful for walks ashore, hunter/gathering stores, and finding pubs, etc.
p.s. I omitted to mention pilot guides. I have old ones for southern Britain and SW Ireland, but would like to buy or borrow ones for Scotland and the rest of Ireland for such a trip, though I don't consider them essential and the lack of any of them would not deter me from embarking on such a trip.
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doug748
Well-Known Member
These folk used to do a lot but I think their stock is not what it was:
Marine Chart Services | Admiralty Maps & Charts For Sale
You could put an ad it the Wanted section here:
Wanted
But you may not be able to access this until you have been here for a little while.
.
PhillM
Well-Known Member
I like to have charts of places I'd like to go in future. There don't need to be up to date, as I am not actually going there yet.. just dreaming. So if they were new, then they would likely be out of date before I got to use them for real.
Minchsailor
Well-Known Member
I find it is not possible to passage plan on a plotter, so I like to have large area charts for planning purposes. Don't have to be up-tp-date as will not use for inshore passages, and at that scale any change of datum is trivial. I always have an up-to-date Reeds.
Minchsailor
Well-Known Member
For the west and north west coast of Scotland I would consider the sailing directions are essential; even if only passage making
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
What are those flappy cloth things above the boat in your avatar image?
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Well, it's not a square rigger ?
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Back in the day I used to use a small scale passage chart :
Constructed from object positions in Reeds. It used to get me cross channel ok.
Calculating a course and distance from A to B you can use 'Flat Earth Navigation' but why would you bother these days?
dansaskip
Well-Known Member
It is actually because sometimes 19th century technology is better for purpose than 21st C stuff and certainly more reliable. I always have been and continue to be a fan of paper charts and personally think it poor preparation if you don't have paper charts aboard . I personally find them much better than plotters or tablets for most aspects of passage planning or even just looking at where I might venture. I know that others will differ and that is their choice. And yes GPS can suddenly fail - maybe not the system but the instrument can. I have known a number of yachts to have suffered lightning strikes resulting in total loss of electronics. I my case though not a lightning strike my GPS screen burnt out and was unreadable when I was crossing the Pacific singlehanded. I was certainly glad I had paper charts with me. Of course I did have a back up in a handheld GPS but I needed a chart to plot my position on.
LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
Only one backup GPS, a minimum if you're not versed in astro nav on an ocean passage. These days with GPS on phone, tablet et al and one of them stored in a tin box you would be hard pressed not to know your position. As for charts, as I've shown above, it's fairly easy to knock up a passage chart on a sheet of A4 graph paper, not forgetting that a phone or tablet can be a dormant chart plotter.
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I demur. It's always possible to confect a scenario where a variety of electrical systems fail but most are improbable in the extreme given multiple backup systems which can be had for less money and offer greater versatility. Like Trump, paper charts have had their day but many adherents don't yet recognise that fact.
Out of interest, does anyone know if commercial airlines carry paper backups for navigation?
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Always remember that a serious solar flare could knock out the entire constellation of satellites; the satellites wouldn't survive a flare like the Carrington Event (caused serious problems for telegraph systems in the 19th century!). If that happened you could have as many GPS units as you like - they'll all be bricks without the satellites sending signals!
Very unlikely - but we have been lucky a few times already when flares powerful to cause that kind of damage have not been pointed towards the Earth. It is suggested by data from ice cores etc. that events like occur about once in 100 years - but that's purely statistical; you could have two in quick succession or none for 500 years.
