Secondhand paper charts

[oldmanofthehills]

Many OS products have been print-on-demand for the last decade or more - 1:10,000 maps since the 1990s. It isn't a big problem - most copy centres have large-format printers, and the actual cost of producing large-format prints isn't that high; a few pounds per A0 or bigger sheet. We used a large format inkjet plotter (66" wide, roll-fed) for short print runs - the cross-over point between doing that and getting maps printed was around 200 copies. The main cost was in time trimming and folding the maps! Print-on-demand doesn't mean that you print things at home (though that is possible if you have the equipment); usually it means either that the supplier prints the product when required, or a specialist supplier (e.g. Chart Agent) prints it for you. To the end user, it isn't actually a big deal.

PS. It could mean the end of buying charts at the chandler because of the investment required to provide the service. but maybe not - I've just checked and a 36" wide roll-fed plotter similar to the ones we used is around £2.5k from HP. Media (including UV-resistant ink) and suitable paper (we used an anti-cockle heavy weight paper) work out at a few pounds per copy .

Chandlers and chart agents are closing down around Bristol and its all down to on-line purchase for many things. No doubt the big chandlery chains will go for offering print and post, but we will lose the ability to so readily peruse the final chart before purchase. Sadly many small independent chandleries will probably go to the wall due to the changeing market.

Our big printers cost way more than £2.5k and our prints come out at about £150 for 2.5m by 0.5m (inc admin) but no doubt the need to be usable in pouring rain and stored for 50 years on a railway or motorway embankment, makes rather greater demands on media and ink than most nautical charts so they should be cheaper once it becomes more general practice

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Chandlers and chart agents are closing down around Bristol and its all down to on-line purchase for many things. No doubt the big chandlery chains will go for offering print and post, but we will lose the ability to so readily peruse the final chart before purchase. Sadly many small independent chandleries will probably go to the wall due to the changeing market.

Our big printers cost way more than £2.5k and our prints come out at about £150 for 2.5m by 0.5m (inc admin) but no doubt the need to be usable in pouring rain and stored for 50 years on a railway or motorway embankment, makes rather greater demands on media and ink than most nautical charts so they should be cheaper once it becomes more general practice

Yes - seriously waterproof paper does put the cost up. Oddly, the ink doesn't - UV resistant ink (HP, that is) was something we couldn't justify (all our products had a short life-time) but would have perhaps doubled the ink costs. But each print uses so little ink that it isn't really a big deal - for us it was the up-front cost and lack of justification that mattered. Also, Antarctica is dry, so wet resistance wasn't a requirement - we found that anti-cockle paper (still 2-3 times the price of plain paper) was plenty good enough, and that was only needed because we sometimes used solid fills - as, of course, do charts. Our printer was 66" wide and, as you say, cost around the £10k-£15k mark - but that's not necessary for the relatively small format of a chart; a 36" plotter should be fine.

I've just realized that your price also is full economic cost - we never had to work it out that way, as all the other costs were already covered. The cost I quote is simply production costs, not even wages. Mostly the printer could be left on its own to plough through a list of jobs, so it was finishing (mainly trimming) that took time. If we'd costed that, it would have put the cost up substantially! I think that these days you can get plotters at a comparable cost with more elaborate trimming systems than the ones I worked with, too.

 

[LittleSister]

I was taught that charts were never to be taken up to the cockpit, the hardest grade of pencil to be used on them was 2B, so that erasures did no damage, and that dripping oilskin jackets were to be taken off while working on them.
My charts are in excellent condition, probably because I don't get to go sailing nearly enough

When I sailed even smaller boats than now, I had to do all chart work on my knee in the cockpit, so such ideals were impossible. The chart was folded into a transparent plastic sleeve on a chart holder about 24" x 15", and of course would need to be periodically taken out when I sailed over the fold, or moved onto another chart. I used a patent transparent plastic plotting device for 'serious' navigation, but eventually fell into generally using the boat's cheap plastic fly swat as a primitive 'parallel ruler'. Having the chart right in front of you while on the helm has some of the advantages of a plotter!

The charts were repeatedly folded at different points, and often got a bit (or a lot!) wet, but I've still got all, I think, charts I've ever bought, dating back to the early 1990s, and while most are a bit dog-eared, only a couple are difficult to use because they've split along numerous folds. (It probably helps their longevity that I've moved 'home waters' several times.) I particularly used to value the Stanfords charts, which were on thin but strong and fairly waterproof paper.

My current boat allows the luxury of 'indoor' nav, but facilities still only consist of a modest sized 'dashboard' shelf in the wheelhouse, or the (folding) saloon table.

I've never had a boat with a dedicated chart table, but while I've always fancied having one, it hasn't been a major problem to do without.

 

[mattonthesea]

Many OS products have been print-on-demand for the last decade or more - 1:10,000 maps since the 1990s. It isn't a big problem - most copy centres have large-format printers, and the actual cost of producing large-format prints isn't that high; a few pounds per A0 or bigger sheet. We used a large format inkjet plotter (66" wide, roll-fed) for short print runs - the cross-over point between doing that and getting maps printed was around 200 copies. The main cost was in time trimming and folding the maps! Print-on-demand doesn't mean that you print things at home (though that is possible if you have the equipment); usually it means either that the supplier prints the product when required, or a specialist supplier (e.g. Chart Agent) prints it for you. To the end user, it isn't actually a big deal.

PS. It could mean the end of buying charts at the chandler because of the investment required to provide the service. but maybe not - I've just checked and a 36" wide roll-fed plotter similar to the ones we used is around £2.5k from HP. Media (including UV-resistant ink) and suitable paper (we used an anti-cockle heavy weight paper) work out at a few pounds per copy .

I wonder:

would this be an earner for an org'n like CA or RYA? Or an entrepreneur for that matter. As Oldmanof thehills points out, both my local chart shop and chandlers in Bristol have closed (albeit the final straw for the latter was the city centre diesel ban). This must be the case over the country. The CA already keep charts in their library. If they could print them too then they would save money in procuring them but they could also sell them to us lot. Ditto RYA? Then the reduced local market could be a national market. The point being that it needs to be a recognised port of call for charts. While SmithJones and Sons of Little Printham may have the facilities most people will not have heard of them. Or maybe Amazon; they print their books on demand. Just an idea

On a different tack, as Antarctic Pilot notes, there are several uses and needs from charts, whichever form. As we form a varied bunch of sailors we have different needs. Electronic cartography has always suffered from the view-scale balance. To see something clearly on the screen you have to change the scale and then lose sight of something else. Similarly, paper charts don't let you change scale; you have to buy another chart. Depending on our needs and our preferences we choose to use one or both. (I read a lot but I have never bought an e-book - they cost more than 1/6d!)

 

[Barbarella]

Dear Graham_Wright, Kinsale373, LadyinBed, Oldmanofthehills, Blowingoldboats, LittleSister, Doug748, PhillM, Minchsailor, JumbleDuck, Dansaskip, Quiddle and AntarcticPilot:

Many thanks for your helpful guidance which you have generously provided. This is much appreciated.

Cheers,