Secondary anchor question - serious.

Spuddy said:
Thirdly that I was put off some of products above by the representatives ranting. Irrational, I know.
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Spuddy,

Apologies for my side of the ranting. That guy could piss off the Pope, but maybe I should have just laughed it off instead.

Sorry again,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
 
Sybarite said:
Two leading architects : Michel Joubert in France and Steve Dashew USA both come up with the same answer :

Double the recommended size of your primary anchor and have chain and windlass in proportion.
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We shipped Steve Dashew (2) FX-85 and (2) FX-125 last year, our two largest anchors. He also has a monster 115 kg Rocna. Yes, he meant it.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
 
Well, this thread is getting a bit heated........... Here's my twopennyworth - I have a Fortress FX16(bought cheap off Ebay) as a kedge anchor as it's nice & light, and usually it sits in my locker with about 10m of 8mm chain + warp. This has been used a few times when my bower Plough anchor(CQR imitation) failed to set and it has been brilliant - in fact I used it in preference to the plough.
I've just bought an anchor to replace the Plough and I chose the Manson Supreme, mainly from various tests and recommendations on here and because it seems to have a similar performance to the Rocna(my first choice) which is more expensive. My local chandlery had it in stock and sold to me on the understanding that I could return it if it didn't fit my bow roller. It fitted and all I have to do is test it later this year.
Incidently Craig, why can't your Rocna be made in the EU under licence? We do have excellent fabricators with all the experience and capability to make them at a good price rather than importing them from the other side of the world. Have you investigated this option?
 
NormanS said:
:D:D

Yes, and I'm still waiting for information from "the expert" about areas of grass in the Hebrides.:D
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58 07.88N 006 26.30 Loch Luerbost
An American yacht lying to two delta style anchors dragged here a few years back, almost went ashore. On lifting the anchors, they both came up with a ball of 'bootlace' weed covering each plough completely. Wind was only about F5.
Sorry but you did ask!
I use a Bruce copy FWIW, the CQR is now an ornament out the back.

PS. I am not 'the expert' you were looking for...
 
Sad to see all the dick swinging going on here, and quite frankly would put me on a personal mission to find another option. Maybe a Stevpris. Good enough for oil rigs.....

I spent a couple of very pleasant cruises on the west coast on a boat using a bruce that the electric windlass struggled to recover on occasion. It also took some experimenting to get it to set in Canna harbour, but persistence paid off. To my inexperienced eye a good anchor can be ruined by poor setting technique and an adequate anchor can be excellent when well set.

At the end of the day, seamanship is as important part of anchoring as the equipment - choosing the correct destination for the weather at hand and in this day and age, the weather is pretty well predicted.

To the original poster, get on up to west coast and enjoy it. While you are up there have a look around the chandlers that cater for the fishermen - you might get yourself a bargain, although don't expect something fancy. Oh and don't be telling your Solent mates how good it is up there!!!!
 
NorthUp said:
58 07.88N 006 26.30 Loch Luerbost
An American yacht lying to two delta style anchors dragged here a few years back, almost went ashore. On lifting the anchors, they both came up with a ball of 'bootlace' weed covering each plough completely. Wind was only about F5.
Sorry but you did ask!
I use a Bruce copy FWIW, the CQR is now an ornament out the back.

PS. I am not 'the expert' you were looking for...
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No, that "expert" seems to have sung dumb on this at least:D

I wouldn't have thought that "bootlace" weed or "fishing line" weed, which can grow to fantastic lengths, would ever be referred to as "grass". Obviously, any weed can cause problems when anchoring. Kelp is probably the worst culprit. The long bootlace stuff, (I don't know it's real name), is usually so long that it can often be seen at the surface. Both it and Kelp show up well on a fishfinder, so can normally be avoided. I'll just whisper this next bit - a fisherman anchor works better in weed, than many other types of anchor.
I think what is normally meant by "grass" is the kind of Eel Grass, which is causing lots of excitement in places like Studland Bay, in England. The only time I've ever had a problem with it was in Majorca, when we dragged out of a bay in the middle of the night.

I very much go along with boomerangben, in that technique, including choosing the right spot, is just as important as the hardware.
 
Quandary said:
No need to apologize, it has been very useful, now know to avoid the Rocna and you both have certainly convinced me to avoid the Fortress. Perhaps we will hear all about it again next year?
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Sir,

My answer would be a very respectful "no thank you." Lesson learned, and I was later reminded of the quote: "Never argue with an idiot. Bystanders won't be able to tell the difference." So true for any public forum.

The below was the anchor test referenced in our exchange, from which you can certainly form your own opinion without either of us rudely force-feeding ours:

http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Anchor/anchor_study.htm

Be safe,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
 
Brian@Fortress said:
SolentBoy,

Yes, displacement was an issue, and it sounded as though the anchor might be used in potentially rough winds on the west coast of Scotland, and you mentioned muddy bottoms which usually mean reduced holding power for any anchor.

If you could be more specific as to when you plan on deploying this anchor, i.e. lunch hook or stern anchor or storm anchor, then I can re-assess my recommendation.

I can also put you in contact with a local UK distributor who should be able to direct you to a retailer who is not asking a king's ransom for a new Fortress.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
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The anchor will be used as a stern anchor, and additional anchor in circumstances where I am concerned the Delta might struggle, or does struggle.

UK contacts would be much appreciated. Thanks.
 
SolentBoy said:
The anchor will be used as a stern anchor, and additional anchor in circumstances where I am concerned the Delta might struggle, or does struggle.

UK contacts would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Here's some quick numbers to consider: According to the American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) "Horizontal Load" tables, a 50 ft. boat (sizing up from your 44 ft.) will have a "load" or force of 1,600 lbs in 30 knots of wind, and that load doubles to 3,200 lbs. in 42 knots of wind.

Those loads are what your anchor, shackle, chain, & rope must be able to withstand to keep your boat from breaking free when anchored.

The 22lb. FX-37 will provide up to 12,000 lbs of holding power in a hard sand bottom, which is optimal for holding. However, that holding power is dramatically reduced to 1,800 lbs. in soft mud, which is horrible for holding. If you change the fluke angle from 32° to 45°, which you can only do with a Fortress, that holding power will improve to 3,600 lbs.

The 15lb. FX-23 will provide up to 8,000 lbs of holding power in a hard sand bottom and 1,200 lbs. in soft mud. Again, if you change the fluke angle from 32° to 45°, that holding power will improve to 2,400 lbs.

Since I am not absolutely certain of what you are likely to encounter there, I have to err on the side of caution and say get the larger size.

That said, I sure would like to share a testimonial on the FX-23 where it saved a sailor from losing his boat in a dire emergency. Maybe in a future post.

Please contact Richard Bavin of Pro-Boat Ltd in Essex. He is a fine gentleman and he will steer you in the right direction. Tel: 01621 78 54 55 or e-mail: richard@proboat.co.uk

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Regards,
Brian

Fortress Marine Anchors
 
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