Second hand prices - will they tumble & will we see more coming up for sale

[bankofdad]

Hi all, having just sold our previous vessel I'm now on the look out for the next wallet worrier. However stock seems still very thin on the ground for the 10 metre family carrying kind of craft we're after.

I have a budget of max 75K but would rather come in under to allow for any unknowns and really haven't found anything to shout about yet - we saw a Hanse 350 the other week but it was sold within 24hrs..ooh I do fancy a Hanse..

Same with an Oceanis 34 - it was gone the same day as listed..

I've got a Dufour 310 GL to look at but think it might be a bit too small for our needs and our stretching kids - ideally whatever I get this time round will last us a few years.

Interested if anyone has a view and thoughts on how things are shaping up.


Cheers BOD

 

[mrming]

There’s still a shortage of good condition, newer, used boats, so I can’t see anything changing in that size / price bracket in the immediate term. Plenty of evidence of prices softening on older boats in less than good condition though, as compared with during the pandemic.

 

[jac]

Having bought a month ago i decided that waiting for prices to improve was unlikely to result in much success. I suspect that many owners ( even new ones) are older so more likely to be less affected by increasing mortgage rates although of course fuel price rises will hurt. Many will have final salary pension schemes ( at least in part) so have some inflation protection.

Add in the paucity of boats on the market, the pent up demand and the inability to practically and cost effectively to bring boats in from overseas and i just can't see the supply and demand equation changing much. besides, even with improved interest rates your money is probably going to devalue by £5k in real terms in the next year so you may well buy something now if you can find it!

 

[Caer Urfa]

As a part time surveyor you get to see trends and this year has certainly been the busiest I have seen, and yes others are right if you are boat hunting and see a nice boat you fancy move quickly as it will gone. Anything for sale longer than a few months ask WHY! but do your homework first and beware of so called bargains or project boats

 

[Parabolica]

I’ve taken just over a year to conduct my searches to find the right boat for us (our first), which took me initially to view various UK boats but then i broadened the search and went to Majorca (3 times), then Holland and finally Athens, all to try and get it right first time.

I completed the purchase on Tuesday last week, in Majorca and that’s where our boat will stay. How plans change and only time will tell if we have made the right decision. However, during the time i have been searching the world economy is and has been changing fast. Yes there are deals and i chipped the price down considerably on what we bought but it was a justified offer and consequently it was eventually accepted. Tentative offers of a similar % reduction were made on two other boats and both have come back wanting to accept since. But of course its now too late.

So, the point i’m making is that like ever before, correctly priced stock sells quickly but if its overpriced, it either sticks or gets sold when the right offer is put forward. The time of season will likely affect this too of course but regardless of the climate, i suspect many like me will keep the market moving regardless of the state of the economy as we realise we cannot buy anymore years. If things get really bad, we buy smaller and if they improve, we go bigger.

Add to this, the likes of Sunseeker, Princess and Fairline are still building in smaller numbers than pre Covid times and assuming the same goes on in other countries, this will keep the market propped up so best just do whats right for you but my advice is don't waste any years as they are just too valuable.

 

[bankofdad]

Thanks all - the Dufour we are viewing is the right age and overall spec - it’s all down to accommodation comprises with that one which I’ll find out soon enough. After spending time in Majorca again & loving our time there this year I did consider looking into that myself but I’d miss the last min weekends and cheeky mid week sails too much. If I could land a 2010 upwards 30 footer that’s set up for single handed - like the Hanse I’d be over the moon. But I’m also of the ‘don’t wait and plan for the next boat - go now’ mentality so get completely what you are saying.

 

[Momac]

I don't see the situation changing with regard to boat values . In fact high inflation is only likely to lead to further increases .

 

[Tranona]

You are right in the "hottest" sector of the market. Virtually no new boats in this size range coming on the market means few trade ins/ups. No "new" used boats coming in from outside. Plus you are looking at boats from the post 2008 up to about 2012 where new boat sales took a nose dive (bit like mid range cars now). On the other hand if you are not fixed on a specific model and can move quickly most boats in this range will not be risky buys, unlike older boats where condition can vary and you might want to be more cautious about making a quick decision.

The best laid out boat in that range, particularly for single handing is the Bavaria 32/3 from 2010 on. The better 33 is just outside your budget, but a 32 could be. I bought a 33 new in 2015 specifically for single handing and my short list was Jeanneau 32, Beneteau 31, Hanse 325 and the Bavaria. The Beneteau and Hanse were just a bit too cramped (I am a big bloke), toss up with the other 2 on most counts except the Jeanneau had a big wheel (as did the Hanse) which meant moving around the cockpit was difficult. Absolutely delighted with the Bavaria and had 6 trouble free seasons before selling it for not much less than I paid for it.

 

[Greemble]

we saw a Hanse 350 the other week but it was sold within 24hrs.

Same with an Oceanis 34 - it was gone the same day as listed..

If boats are selling this fast, is there time to arrange a survey?

 

[bankofdad]

You are right in the "hottest" sector of the market. Virtually no new boats in this size range coming on the market means few trade ins/ups. No "new" used boats coming in from outside. Plus you are looking at boats from the post 2008 up to about 2012 where new boat sales took a nose dive (bit like mid range cars now). On the other hand if you are not fixed on a specific model and can move quickly most boats in this range will not be risky buys, unlike older boats where condition can vary and you might want to be more cautious about making a quick decision.

The best laid out boat in that range, particularly for single handing is the Bavaria 32/3 from 2010 on. The better 33 is just outside your budget, but a 32 could be. I bought a 33 new in 2015 specifically for single handing and my short list was Jeanneau 32, Beneteau 31, Hanse 325 and the Bavaria. The Beneteau and Hanse were just a bit too cramped (I am a big bloke), toss up with the other 2 on most counts except the Jeanneau had a big wheel (as did the Hanse) which meant moving around the cockpit was difficult. Absolutely delighted with the Bavaria and had 6 trouble free seasons before selling it for not much less than I paid for it.

Thanks for that I will definitely look into those you’ve suggested.

 

[bankofdad]

If boats are selling this fast, is there time to arrange a survey?

These two had deposits down pending survey - followed up and both had gone.

 

[Caer Urfa]

If boats are selling this fast, is there time to arrange a survey?

When buying a boat you find and want to buy most buyers are asked to place a deposit of 10% to secure the boat , but the buyer should always make the offer 'Subject to survey' then when a surveyor can do the survey usually in the next weeks and submit to the buyer his survey report the buyer then decide to go ahead or withdraw with the sale, or renegotiate the price if a something serious defect is found needing repair BUT the reason to withdraw has to be either something seriously wrong on the boats condition or the description of the sale was not correct or misleading

 

[Stingo]

This video covers this topic

 

[bankofdad]

That was an excellent film and to be fair probably the best explanation of the consumer challenges facing the economy as a whole!

 

[bankofdad]

Thanks for that I will definitely look into those you’ve suggested.

You are right in the "hottest" sector of the market. Virtually no new boats in this size range coming on the market means few trade ins/ups. No "new" used boats coming in from outside. Plus you are looking at boats from the post 2008 up to about 2012 where new boat sales took a nose dive (bit like mid range cars now). On the other hand if you are not fixed on a specific model and can move quickly most boats in this range will not be risky buys, unlike older boats where condition can vary and you might want to be more cautious about making a quick decision.

The best laid out boat in that range, particularly for single handing is the Bavaria 32/3 from 2010 on. The better 33 is just outside your budget, but a 32 could be. I bought a 33 new in 2015 specifically for single handing and my short list was Jeanneau 32, Beneteau 31, Hanse 325 and the Bavaria. The Beneteau and Hanse were just a bit too cramped (I am a big bloke), toss up with the other 2 on most counts except the Jeanneau had a big wheel (as did the Hanse) which meant moving around the cockpit was difficult. Absolutely delighted with the Bavaria and had 6 trouble free seasons before selling it for not much less than I paid for it.

They do look superb and I agree on your price point break. There a lovely 2016 33 but its 95K - fully loaded and wants for nothing. If I dared to make a move I think swmbo would bring forth such an inner demon upon me I might be walking slightly akimbo for a few days...

 

[Momac]

There a lovely 2016 33 but its 95K - fully loaded and wants for nothing.

Sounds like a bargain .

 

[Tranona]

They do look superb and I agree on your price point break. There a lovely 2016 33 but its 95K - fully loaded and wants for nothing. If I dared to make a move I think swmbo would bring forth such an inner demon upon me I might be walking slightly akimbo for a few days...

That is roughly what I sold my similar 2015 for earlier in the year. Mine was arguably better with extra winches, in mast furling with a new mainsail in Vectran and a cruising chute on a top down furler - all making single/short handed sailing easier.

I see there is also a 2013 for sale in Wales. not quite as nice and no bow thruster but £10k cheaper. Demons might be a little bit less menacing with this one - particularly after a viewing!

 

[Zagato]

I have a budget of max 75K but would rather come in under to allow for any unknowns

I have the ideal boat for you... a Norfolk Gypsy! 72K new with enough left to plonk it on a trailer... with a haggle.

 

[bankofdad]

I have the ideal boat for you... a Norfolk Gypsy! 72K new with enough left to plonk it on a trailer... with a haggle.

Err thanks! My trailer sailing days are over -had a Hawk 20 back in the day and it went like a scalded cat to be fair