Second Hand Boat Buyers Conundrum - AWB vs MAB and Seaworthyness

[Daydream believer]

May surprise the forum dreamers (many of whom are unlikely to leave UK waters except for southeners having a quick dash across the Channel) that the majority of long distance sailors don't have Bavarias, they're mainly the choice for eastern Med holiday users and chartering.

I would imagine that there are a lot more " quick dash across the Channel" & "eastern Med holiday users and chartering" types than long distance sailors. That would suggest that the boats thus produced for the market are infinitely more suitable than your vision of a smaller area of the fraternity

 

[GrahamM376]

I would imagine that there are a lot more " quick dash across the Channel" & "eastern Med holiday users and chartering" types than long distance sailors. That would suggest that the boats thus produced for the market are infinitely more suitable than your vision of a smaller area of the fraternity

Most weekend and holiday boats are bought because of price and caravan interiors, that doesn't make them any "better" any more than a Fiesta is better than a Jag, just because more are produced. Looking at the anchorages and yards around here, excluding the weekend sailors, your choice of boat is in the minority.

 

[Tranona]

May surprise the forum dreamers (many of whom are unlikely to leave UK waters except for southeners having a quick dash across the Channel) that the majority of long distance sailors don't have Bavarias, they're mainly the choice for eastern Med holiday users and chartering.

Think perhaps that you are the one who is dreaming. and stuck in the days when your Moody was the boat of choice. Suggest you look at the entries to the ARC and how they have changed over the years. Plus all the Bavarias that have been bought in Europe and sailed to Australia for example. The world has changed in the last 20 years and there are many people who prefer modern boats because of what they offer that cannot be satisfied by well worn 30 year old boats.

Anyway this is again irrelevant to this thread. It is not about your personal likes and dislikes, nor about crossing oceans, but a young family with £30kish to spend on a coastal cruising boat. So the use is different the criteria are different and the budget is different. The OP does indeed have a dilemma as both MABs and AWBs (for want of a better term) that might meet the criteria are available in the price range. His ownership expectation is 10 years so logically it makes sense to buy the biggest and newest boat in the best condition he can afford. He is much more likely to achieve this with an AWB.

 

[GrahamM376]

Think perhaps that you are the one who is dreaming. and stuck in the days when your Moody was the boat of choice.

Not dreaming, looking at the small anchorage now at boats passing though heading or arriving from south or west - 4 steel, a couple of large grp ketches, a Moody, a Westerly and 4 cats. Not one Bavaria

 

[Tranona]

Not dreaming, looking at the small anchorage now at boats passing though heading or arriving from south or west - 4 steel, a couple of large grp ketches, a Moody, a Westerly and 4 cats. Not one Bavaria

Generalizing from a specific can be very misleading.

Where do you think all the thousands of boats that come out of the big factories every year go to? Don't say they all end up as floating caravans in the eastern Med because that is only one part of the market.The world is much bigger than a little corner of SW Europe.

Yet again, this is all irrelevant to this thread.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Why do you take it all so personally?

I don't.

You DO have your facts wrong about Bavarias as many others have pointed out, including posting a photo of a 34 exactly the same as the one on the OPs original list, which is typical of the brand up until around 2010 when the wood was change to lighter tones.

No incorrect facts. The fact is, i don't like the cheap, mass-produced look of Bavarias. That's a fact, i don't like them.

And if you were observant you would see that on most models the upholstery is not cheap and nasty (unlike many MABs) nor is there much exposed plastic apart from the neat and well moulded deckhead surround. All the bulkheads are veneered ply as are the coachroof sides. You really do have poor powers of observation.

Nothing wrong with my powers of observation. I have observed that the upholstery looks cheap. Many older boats had much better looking upholstery than a new Bavaria, not all of course, but many. I don't like the "neat and well moulded" plastic deckhead, any more than i like the ceiling in my dentists waiting room or my neighbours PVC conservatory, sorry, not for me.

You even remarked that the photo was like your boat! So, it seems you are mistaken.

I fear you may have read too much into my small comment. Whilst the chart table woodwork undoubtedly looks nice, it's only part of the boat. The wood is like mine, Sapelle, that doesn't make the boat just like mine.

You have not been sitting in a Bavaria that looks like a dentists waiting room of a conservatory. If you had, then you would be sitting in a boat that is very similar to yours.

Both comments are incorrect.

There are indeed many AWBs that are less "woody", particularly in recent years as fashions have changed - maybe that is what you are thinking about in your rush to dismiss everything else that you do not like.

Indeed there are and i dislike those even more than Bavarias

However, remember you are in a minority - would guess there were more Bav 34s built in any one year than examples of yours in its long production run.

Ah, i think i see why we can't agree here, seems you can't differentiate between quantity and quality. Bavaria will no doubt produce many more boats this year then Oyster, Rustler and HR, probably all three put together. So you're thinking that because of that your Bavaria is better than any of them, or indeed any of the other quality marques ?

I don't care if you don't buy a Bavaria and what concern (or indeed relevance to this thread) is it of yours whether I like my boat or not. Are you implying that I am some form of inferior being? Perhaps I should feel honoured that you allow me to own what I want.

May i refer you to paragraph one ?

 

[Tranona]

I don't.



No incorrect facts. The fact is, i don't like the cheap, mass-produced look of Bavarias. That's a fact, i don't like them.



Nothing wrong with my powers of observation. I have observed that the upholstery looks cheap. Many older boats had much better looking upholstery than a new Bavaria, not all of course, but many. I don't like the "neat and well moulded" plastic deckhead, any more than i like the ceiling in my dentists waiting room or my neighbours PVC conservatory, sorry, not for me.



I fear you may have read too much into my small comment. Whilst the chart table woodwork undoubtedly looks nice, it's only part of the boat. The wood is like mine, Sapelle, that doesn't make the boat just like mine.



Both comments are incorrect.



Indeed there are and i dislike those even more than Bavarias



Ah, i think i see why we can't agree here, seems you can't differentiate between quantity and quality. Bavaria will no doubt produce many more boats this year then Oyster, Rustler and HR, probably all three put together. So you're thinking that because of that your Bavaria is better than any of them, or indeed any of the other quality marques ?



May i refer you to paragraph one ?

You really are obsessed with trying to prove that you are "right".

Just to clear one thing up. The whole of the woodwork inside the Bav 34 is like that - just like your boat. You could comment about the rather stark nature of some of the recent AWBs as I pointed out in an earlier post but that does not apply to the older boats which are the subject of this thread. You may well have seen poor upholstery on some boats, including the appalling materials, colours and styles used in many MABs when new and looking even worse when old. Anyway these are things can can easily be corrected if not to your taste.

Nobody gives a stuff about what you like or don't like. This is not the question. You must be very insecure if you feel the need to repeat what you like and what a good choice you made (and how much money you saved) in buying your boat.

As to "quality" you are right the boats you mention are superior to Bavaria and so they should be at nearly twice the price. However, that does not apply to your boat in the same way. In its time it was one of the cheapest boats on the market, even though it was a lot of money in real terms compared with similar size boats today. It sold because it was the only thing available in the then limited market. As soon as efficient producers entered the market it, and similar poor value boats were killed stone dead. The new style of boats sold well because they better met buyers' needs and offered superior value for money.

I have not mentioned my own boat once in relation to this thread because it is not relevant. Just for the record though it was delivered with no faults whatsoever, is beautifully made in a factory sort of way, everything works and fits perfectly, and has now been in use for 2 years continuously and nothing has gone wrong or broken apart from bits of the Garmin system fixed under warranty. That is what I wanted and is what quality is all about - and at roughly half the price of a so called "quality" brand.

BTW if you are not taking this personally why are you continuing to try and defend your actions, when you are clearly wrong on some points and majoring on your likes as if they somehow have higher status than the likes and dislikes of others?

 

[De.windhoos]

whatever you choose, wait until winter is coming :cool-new: (Oct/Nov)
This is normally the period when people don't buy boats, so either prices are lower, or you have more room for negotiations.

 

[TSB240]

whatever you choose, wait until winter is coming :cool-new: (Oct/Nov)
This is normally the period when people don't buy boats, so either prices are lower, or you have more room for negotiations.

I would like to know why you say this ? Whenever I have talked to any Broker about peak business periods one of their busiest appears to be this very time!

 

[PaulRainbow]

You really are obsessed with trying to prove that you are "right".

I am right, i don't like Bavarias. Can't see how i could be mistaken about that

Pity you can't accept that no everyone will like the same things that you do.

 

[Daydream believer]

Most weekend and holiday boats are bought because of price and caravan interiors, that doesn't make them any "better" any more than a Fiesta is better than a Jag, just because more are produced. Looking at the anchorages and yards around here, excluding the weekend sailors, your choice of boat is in the minority.

I think not & if you want to compare like with like rather than jags & fiestas then compare an early fiesta with the latest or a new mini with the old one
You will see more old junk in the yards as you rightly suggest because they are that - junk so that is why my choice is in the minority- it is out being used

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Here is a very nice Manky Auld Boat. A completely refurbished Westerly Longbow which has had all of the interior woodwork replaced, rerigged, re-engined and so on. Not been in the water since 2006

http://westerly.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=530552

 

[Tranona]

I am right, i don't like Bavarias. Can't see how i could be mistaken about that

Pity you can't accept that no everyone will like the same things that you do.

I do, but I don't make a big deal about it but you go on and on about what you like and don't like, often using spurious and incorrect "facts" as in this case.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I do, but I don't make a big deal about it but you go on and on about what you like and don't like, often using spurious and incorrect "facts" as in this case.

LOL

 

[GrahamM376]

You will see more old junk in the yards as you rightly suggest because they are that - junk so that is why my choice is in the minority- it is out being used

I never suggested that boats in yards are junk, where did you dream that up?

 

[Tranona]

LOL

Glad you are sufficiently aware to recognise you are wrong.

5 people on this thread have told you that you are wrong about the amount of wood in the specific Bavaria (and all others of the era), two of whom have owned one.

Count up the number of times you have talked about how good your boat is, not supported by anything but always by referring to something else as being inferior.

 

[pvb]

Here is a very nice Manky Auld Boat. A completely refurbished Westerly Longbow which has had all of the interior woodwork replaced, rerigged, re-engined and so on. Not been in the water since 2006

http://westerly.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=530552

Bizarre! Why would anyone do that? It's probably worth a fraction of the ambitious asking price.

 

[Prima]

Bizarre! Why would anyone do that? It's probably worth a fraction of the ambitious asking price.

It looks like a cold forecabin too

Bit shabby with the paint brush also

Nice starter project although I think the owner wouldn't like my phrase

 

[Prima]

Glad you are sufficiently aware to recognise you are wrong.

To be fair you're both at fault. Neither of you are helping

Just more angry boaters ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Glad you are sufficiently aware to recognise you are wrong.

What ? Anyone who doesn't like Bavarias is wrong ?

5 people on this thread have told you that you are wrong about the amount of wood in the specific Bavaria (and all others of the era), two of whom have owned one.

Not much of a listener are you ?

Count up the number of times you have talked about how good your boat is, not supported by anything but always by referring to something else as being inferior.

Don't think i've mentioned "how good" my boat is once. I briefly described it, in response to the OPs questions in post #1. At least my boat fits in with his requirements and budget, even allowing room for some upgrades and improvements to be made, which would almost certainly be needed with any of the boats he's mentioned.

I have never once said that Bavarias are inferior to my boat, simply that i find them cheap looking and don't like them. But of course, no-one is allowed to not like a Bavaria.