Sea Trials

[paulskent]

Well I am about to take the plunge and have my eye on a couply of likely boats and am close to making a final decision.

One of the prime options is on the hard and is owned by a dealer. The other is also ashore but it is owned by the original seller.

My question is that although these are reasonably well know boat types. Is it reasonable to ask them for a test sail? Would I have to pay for the launch ?

This is after all likely to be an item which will soak up a fair amount of my hard earned cash ??


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[[3889]]

If I were the seller I would be happy to allow a sea trial but would expect you to pay for the launch and re-lift out if necessary.If the boat was in the water you would have had to pay for the lift out for survey. Whether you could agree terms for the seller to refund you if there were major problems is a moot point - the survey should highlight these in any case. If you're not sure its the class of boat you want you can't really expect the vendor to subsidise you trying it out imho.
Andy

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[AndrewB]

It is worth getting a copy of the RYA booklet "Buying a second-hand yacht" (price £4.95) which has a lot of advice on points like this.

The usual arrangement is to include a sea trial as part of the purchase contract (i.e. after you have paid a deposit); slipping if necessary being at the buyer's expense. The conditions under which you can legitimately withdraw from an agreement as a result of the trial are spelt out, but I believe do not include poor sailing performance.

Of course you might persuade a keen buyer to give you a trial without any sort of agreement, but unfortunately there are a lot of time-wasters around who try this on for free sails, so don't be offended by scepticism if you ask.

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[KevB]

Personally, if I was the seller I would be happy to launch the boat on the basis of.....if you buy it I pay, if you don't, you do.

As you have said that they are reasonably common models, a trip around your local marina and a bit of smart talking should get you a ride to see if that particular model is for you.

I don't think the sea trial should be used to see if you like that make/style of boat but more to make sure it does everything it says on the tin.
By the time you are asking for a Sea trial on a boat up for sale, you should be fairly confident that if it does everything that model should then you will make an offer, other wise you will be seen as a time waster.

All IMHO of course.



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>

 

[davidwf]

Have boat up for sale at the moment, I would expect prospective buyer to pay for launch and recovery, if you bought I'd pay for the launch by knocking it off the price.

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[jac]

But if its on the hard the buyer needs to pay for 1 launch anyway when he needs to take her to her berth. You wouldn't refund that one.

I wonder if its a good way to make you the vendor pay all the storage ashore costs. i.e. renegotiate after the survey and agree the price - normally the purchaser pays the money and then assumes liability for costs from then. If he has to wait a fortnight to get a launch date then has to pay maybe £100 in storage costs. However if ownership doesn't pass till after the sea trial then vendor pays for that cost and the new owner is free to sail his new boat away as soon as the money is in the vendors a/c.

I'm also dubious of the benefit of them. The survey should pick up the faults that will affect the price and if you end up quibling over a minor fault that can only be seen when sailing then are you really going to walk away when you've already paid for a launch and a survey (Maybe £400-£500.) Bearing in mind that you would have to pay that again on the next boat then i guess for a small amount of money you're not. As was said above, you can't pull out on the basis you don't like her sailing performance so what are you learning?

When sale of existing boat goes through I intend to start looking. Once we have a shortlist then start seeking opinions/rides even charters if necessary to try out the seakeeping. That seems to give the best way of trying and rejecting boats from the shortlist without the problems pf paying for a launch/recovery and potentially losing the deposit if i don't like the motion.

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[wooslehunter]

There's no reason at all why you should lose a deposit if you don't like the sea trial. Just get it written in to the contract. If you;'re paying for the launch, then you've already demonstrated you're not a time waster and stand to lose the crane fee. No-one would ever consider buying a car without a test drive so why expect to buy a yacht without a sea trial. You'll only really spot things when you sail the thing. Having said that of course you'll only be testing the boat in the conditions on the day but at least you can practically try every bit of kit.

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[graham]

To be honest if they are well known models a "sea trial"is more about the engine and stern gear than the sailing performance.Possibly you could pay a deposit with satisfactory engine performance underway as a clause.

You can ascertain the sailing performance from the handicap number .The hull shape and ballast ratio will give good clues as to heavy weather performance.

Why not ask the forum for opinions on the boats you are interested in.With a bit of luck some owners or ex owners of the models in question may reply.

As you say it is a major investment not only in money but also in time and hassle ,get all the info you can and try to get the right boat first time. Best of Luck Graham.


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[ubuysa]

I'm not sure I'd be expecting to use a sea trial to see if I like the model of boat, but rather to see if everything works. Rather like a test drive in a car, you do't do it to see if you like the model but to check that it works. I'll certainly want a test sail when I'm buying (as soon as the flat is sold) and I'll be taking along a couple of experienced friends so that there are enough hands to check everything out.

As a buyer I'd expect to pay all the costs of the sea trial, but I'd also expect them to be deducted from the price if I complete the purchase. Seems only fair.

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[jac]

The main cost would be the launch. Wouldnt you pay for that anyway at some stage? Unless you just intended to leave the boat sat at the brokers!!

Agree that if any faults do arise then you're going to renegotiate the price but a) shouldn't the survey pick up the faults and b) you're in a very poor negotiating position - you're already in for several hundred pounds - If i as a vendor refuse to budge by £500 over minor faults are you really going to walk away bearing in mind that you'll lose perhaps £300 on the lift in/out + a couple of hundred on survey costs when for the same money you could buy a boat you're otherwise happy with??

That said I'll probably insist on one in the future even though its of limited benefit.

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[ubuysa]

Pay for the launch at some stage? Well, no. If I'm buying a boat off you and you've chosen to keep it on the hard then I don't expect to have to pay (at the end of the deal) to put it back in the water.

Surveys (so I'm assured) have so many caveats and "inspected visually" clauses that I'd be reluctant to trust an outlay of several tens of thousands of pounds on a survey alone. "Buyer beware", as they say, so even if it is going to cost me several hundred pounds to walk away I think it would be crazy to buy a boat without having sailed her.

Tony C.



<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[paulskent]

Well thanks for clearing that up chaps... Now I'me totally confused. I think what you said is:

1. There is no standard protocal or advice for this situation, its down to the particpants to work it out.
2. See if I can blag a test sail.
3. By the YWA buying a second hand boat book (it's on order).
4 See if I can get somebody with a similar boat to take me out in theirs.
5 Be prepared to pay for launching costs if asked.

My requirement is really to see if everything works when it is supposed to. I have heard stories of many disasters happening just after a boat was used for the first time. Furlings systems.. Leaks.... Motors.. etc etc...

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[jimi]

" I have heard stories of many disasters happening just after a boat was used for the first time. Furlings systems.. Leaks.... Motors.. etc etc... "

erm erm

That's boats!! Be prepared!!!!!!!!!!


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[Benbow]

If you tell the forum what they are, you may well get some useful advice on things to watch out for.

PS I have a boat about to come up for sale in Dickies of Bangor and I would be delighted to take you for a test sail ! I too am dubious of the value, but I would very much like to do a proper hand-over to the new owner and that can only be done at sea.



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[jac]

Ok but If I've chose to pay for the boat to stay afloat then you'd have to pay for a lif t for the survey to be done.

Either way its one lift you have to pay for.

Also if you sell via a broker most of them are particularly keen to have the boat ashore at their site. At least the ones I spoke to are.

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[ubuysa]

Yup, what you say is perfectly true. I stand corrected.

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[paulskent]

PM me details of your boat for sale.. Dickies is one of my ports of call...

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