Scottish Law!!!!!

[Alistairr]

I call it descrimination, just because i live inSCOTLAND bloody SCOTLAND, and just because my new boat (THAT I STILL HAVEN'T GOT YET) is costing over £25k, i am being told it must registered, PART 1..scottish law. AT an additional charge of somewhere in the region of £500. Whereas had i lived 10yrds south off the scots border then there would be no such charge!!!!!
Having read an earlier post at the weekend by Burgundyben. re: registry of his boat, i too now HAVE to put the port of registry on the stern of my boat. That is okay when you have a cruiser over 25' but on a sports boat that sits low in the water there ain't much room for example :"INDIANA GLASGOW".
The only good thing is i get to pick the port of registry wether its Glasgow, Ayr,Swansea, Jersey or somewhere fancy in the Med.

Has anyone else had such experience??

Happy1 think yourself lucky.

<hr width=100% size=1>CHEERS.

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[sailbadthesinner]

are you sure they can do this?
why not register it in london then?
then again it may get attentionfrom unfriendly locals if it is thought to be a SEB's boat.

can't you claim it is unfair under the EU human rights
that as miserley race you should be exempt any undue outgoings ( unlimited amount of spends on boats excepted)
i mean you are scottish ( i assume with a name like alistairr)
well that surely enough is hardship itself to bring a case.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>I can't walk on water, but I do run on Guinness</font color=red>

 

[Alistairr]

HEY watch it!!
Yes they can do this, I can register it anywhere i want, but to get out of paying i would need to move out of Scotland.


<hr width=100% size=1>CHEERS.

Help needed to name new boat, PLEASE.

 

[qsiv]

That IS puzzling - why would they want it entered in the BRITISH register (which is'nt controlled by Scots law)??? unless of course you're borrowing money to buy the boat in the first place, in whcich case (if it's a marine mortgage) the same rules apply throughout the UK....

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[Alistairr]

Yes i am borrowing money on it.
The bank told me for that reason under scottish law it has to be registered, i was also told that it would not apply if i lived south of the border..
You're not telling me that every boat sold with a marine mortgage is registered, surely..

<hr width=100% size=1>CHEERS.

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[qsiv]

Correct - in order to register the charge againts the boat it has to be part I registered, north or south of the border. It's not specific to Scotland I'm afraid!

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Go south young man

tis the only answer

or extend house mortgage so no charge and lower rate than marine mortgage per chance? plus option to pay off quicker ?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>I can't walk on water, but I do run on Guinness</font color=red>

 

[Alistairr]

I am sorry you are wrong.
I have just phoned the Bank of Scotland/Marine at Southampton and spoken to the person who is dealing with the purchase of my new boat, and this is what they said:
if you take a mortgage out on a boat and live in England or Northern Ireland then the bank does not request it to be registered. However if you live in scotland then you do HAVE TO register it because Scottish law requires you to, it is something to do with the lender keeping tabs on their security.
This applies wether you borrow from either Bank of Scotland, Lombards or Barclays Marine.
Give them a call if you wish. 023 8021 0181.


If Kym is on line can you confirm this?

<hr width=100% size=1>CHEERS.

Help needed to name new boat, PLEASE.

 

[Alistairr]

Re: Go south young man

With the Bank of Scotland you also have the option of paying of quicker with no penalty, got really good finance deal sorted at boat show, not really any better off if extended home mortgage, anyway wanted to keep boating seperate to house.(just in case)..

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Help needed to name new boat, PLEASE.

 

[qsiv]

Reply not my understanding at all. If you take out a marine mortage guarenteed against the vessel itself, then part I registry is a requirement, as the lenders interest is recorded againt the master entry in the Register of ships (as mainteained at each port of registry) and also in what I still euphemistically call the blue book.

If the mortgage isnt guaranteed against the boat (but against other assets such as a house), then the part I registry entry isnt required. As far as I am aware the same rules are those of any British bank, irresepective of your residence or domicile.

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[qsiv]

Heres the government quote I was after, that states that a boat has to be registered in order for a lender to register their charge....

Part I Registration

Registration on Part I of the British Registry entitles you to the following benefits:
Enables you to prove title to your boat
Allows you to register a marine mortgage
Provides internationally acceptable documentation to ease passage to foreign ports
Entitles you to protection from the Royal Navy and the services of British Consuls
Can enhance the resale of your vessel
Provides proof of date of build in respect of the EU Recreational Craft Directive
Ensures that your boat's name is unique on Part I
You need to register if you: intend to leave UK waters
want to fly the Red Ensign
want to register a mortgage on a boat


The key thing is that without Part I registry there is nothing that actually proves you own the boat that you are borrowing against. It also protects sellers from buying a boat with a large mortgage outstanding (provided they get an extract from the register).

I was wrong about the register being maintained at each port - that hasnt been so since the late '80s - it is now maintained centrally.


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[Alistairr]

Is the mortgage not always automatically guarenteed against the vessel, i don't know.
The bank told me if south of border registration is not a legal reqiurement, if north of border registration is a legal requirement under Scottish law.
Did you speak to B of Scotland?

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Help needed to name new boat, PLEASE.

 

[jfm]

possible explanation

I think (though if others know better please correct me - Observer might know) that this is to do with the very different law of property that applies in Scotland on the one hand and England/Wales on the other.

In Scotland, for a mortgage to be enforceable by the lender it must be registered on a property register. For boats this means part 1 or a foreign equivalent. In England however, a motgage is enforceable whether it is registered publicly or not. I mean, it can either be publicly recorded on the part 1 registry, or it can be a private secret contract between the lender and the borrower.

Now, in England most lenders insist the mortgage is registered. This is nothing to do with making the mortgage legal or enforceable. It is simply to prevent the boat or house being sold on to an unsuspecting 3rd party who buys it and claims he didn't know about the mortgage, hence it is no longer enforceable against him, becos he didn't know about it and bort in good faith. Thus, UK lenders tend to insist mortgages are registered above a threshold (£20k ish?) but do not bother below that becos the £500+ cost is too much.

In contrast, in Scotland the mortgage must be registered else it isn't worth the paper it is written on. So banks insist on registration, no matter how small the loan.

The question whether English or Scots law applies can be tricky but the bank likely thinks that becos alistairr lives in Scotland and the boat is located there he can argue that Scots law applies to him, not English, and they're probly right. Hence they insist he part 1 registers, so the mortgage is valid.

I think this is how it works, but if others know better please correct me. I'm very hazy on my recollection of Scots property law - it's a very specialist subject! Also Alistairr, I'm guessing you are borrowing a smallish amount else the above analysis is wrong somewhere.

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[Alistairr]

Re: possible explanation

Thankyou jfm for clearing that up, I was told if i had an address outwith Scotland then the Bank of Scotland said i would not need to register it, but as i don't have a second home elsewhere then i am stuck with paying the extra. so be it.
The sum i am borrowing may be small to some people, but £25500 is alot of money to me.

<hr width=100% size=1>CHEERS.

Help needed to name new boat, PLEASE.

 

[jfm]

Re: possible explanation

Yes. I agree 25k is not a small amount, I only meant small compared with some of the larger boat loans, and small in the eyes of a lending bank! £25k might be below the level at which lenders insist English mortgages are registered, although to be honest I would have expected a bit lower number like 15k or 20k maybe. Hmmmm.

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[Alistairr]

Re: possible explanation

jfm,
Which part of the west coast of Scotland do you plan to frequent this summer? Where does your bruv keep his boat?
I live only a few miles from largs marina on the clyde,
I do my boating in Loch Lomond, but when my boat grows up i plan on mooring in Largs.

<hr width=100% size=1>CHEERS.

Help needed to name new boat, PLEASE.

 

[Happy1]

Well I am Scottish, but what a load of nonsense that is!! I have registerd my boat, but only Part 3 for taking it to France, that only cost a tenner. All this measuring nonsense is money for the boys, why can't they just look at the manufacturers details (as long as you have not put an extension on it!). It is the same in the marinas, they get out the tape measure to see if it has grown on the way over from America. Anyway if you want to register it in my name in England /forums/images/icons/wink.gif then that's OK /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif, I promise I won't sell it!!

Sorry to hear about that, but is Scottish sea more salty than English sea?

Cheers,

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>

 

[Alistairr]

I sent my form away with my tenner to register part 3 last week, cause i thought thats all i needed, now the bank are registering it part 1 , i could have saved myself a tenner. Doh!!

Oh how i'd like to take you up on that offer!

Has your mrs come to terms with boatiing yet? How are you enjoying it?

Don't know what you mean 'water' 'salty' i haven't a clue i sail in the Lochs!!!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>CHEERS.

Help needed to name new boat, PLEASE.

 

[jfm]

W Coast Scotland

Dunstaffnage (sp) and Oban

My brother's boat is in Kip at the moment. It's the blue hulled "Silver Dee", just on the right as you enter the marina from the Clyde, next to a massive GranBanks and a Squad55. But he is taking it to Dunstaffnage marina, becos he prefers the diving there. Will make the move easter weekend. He has had his last boat, a 30footer, in Dunstaff for the last few years, and now the marina has built him a brand new pontoon specially for his new toy (it is 38 tons and 53 feet, and Dunstaff didn't have anything that big up till now!)

I was up there on saturday just gone. Great weather. We fitted a new autopilot and sailed up from Kip to the top of Loch Long, to try it out. The military base people on the east side of Loch Long were a bit touchy, made us take a wide berth!

I must say I am hugely impressed by W Coast Scotland. It is beautiful. I hope to make a few more trips up this summer, though I cannot do the Kip-Dunstaff delivery trip (I think he's going round Mull of K unless the weather is bad, becos he doesn't want to pay the £150 Crinan Canal fee!)

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[Happy1]

I will be up in Scotland in the Summer cruising Loch Linnhe, Oban area & Inner Hebrides. My wife loves the boat and my baby daughter is settling in with our safety routine. I had brilliant weather for my first week, just a shame the launch was a nightmare! but we are learning more every day.

I hope that all goes well with your boat, mine is only 6.14 mtrs with a 4.3ltr Volvo Penta, but will do more than 38knts (43mph) with 4 on board, and it cruises easily at about 28knts. We have bought the trailer so will have to use it, pointless to leave it in the trailer park. I am sure you will have fun up in Loch Lomond with your bigger boat.

Cheers,

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know" <font color=purple>