Scottish Government Consultation on Highly Protected Marine Areas

[NorthUp]

Govt has presided over untold and unmeasured damage to island economies due to their inability to manage ferries, squandered hundreds of millions on a mad ticket subsidy scheme and a farcical failure to build ferries despite repeated warnings from the people who live on the islands and subject matter experts; the relatively small number of people who enjoy messing about in boats are not on the radar, nor are the businesses which derive income from them.

No? We are just collateral damage rather than the main target? The effect on locals and visitors will be the same.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

There is no doubt that the marine environment around Scotland and the UK is under pressure from over exploiting, including damage from land based activities. Doing nothing will only see further degradation. You are being offered an opportunity to express a view point. Have we become so cynical that we believe there is no point? At least try.

 

[Seven Spades]

I don't believe anything we do is damaging in the UK. Anchoring is like sticking a pin in a football field.

 

[steve yates]

Scallop dredgers have got to be the most destructive things to the marine environment, May e followed a distant second by fishfarms. Legislate for them and forget about the miniscule effect leisure sailors/ fishermen and inshore creel boats will have.

 

[boomerangben]

It’s easy to blame scallop dredging, fish farms, trawling and so on for damage to the marine environment. Indeed there is increasing restrictions on these activities and thankfully I think we are increasingly aware as a population of the benefits of hand dived scallops and long lining etc. Moving fish farms to more exposed areas helps as well. We as a population need to demand that our food and energy are sustainably sourced and vote with our hands, feet and wallet. Our government needs to support sustainable food production and much of that can be done through marketing as well as helping producers and fishermen to switch.

Our local beach is a SSSI, the bay has restrictions on scallop dredging and trawling, but the litter is unbelievable for such a remote area. Indeed going to remote beaches in Shetland, I have noticed the same. Litter. I think the first and simplest means of helping the marine environment is to provide cheap means of disposing of marine waste onshore and not just tossing it over the side.

At the beginning of the document, the Scottish Government cited increasing recreation as a key goal in all this. I’m not so naive that yotties won’t have restrictions placed on them but quite frankly it seems to me that this process comes from global politics aimed at industrial uses of the sea

 

[ctva]

...
Our local beach is a SSSI, the bay has restrictions on scallop dredging and trawling, but the litter is unbelievable for such a remote area. Indeed going to remote beaches in Shetland, I have noticed the same. Litter. I think the first and simplest means of helping the marine environment is to provide cheap means of disposing of marine waste onshore and not just tossing it over the side.
...

Most detritus that we find on remote beaches are from fishing activities.

 

[boomerangben]

Most detritus that we find on remote beaches are from fishing activities.

Exactly, so let’s make it easier for them to bring the detritus home

 

[afterpegassus]

Scallop dredgers have got to be the most destructive things to the marine environment, May e followed a distant second by fishfarms. Legislate for them and forget about the miniscule effect leisure sailors/ fishermen and inshore creel boats will have.

Don't entirely agree with the "miniscule effect .... creel boats have"
My father was a creel fisherman back in the 60s and 70s and made a good living fishing 300 creels.
Now there are many vessels fishing 3000 creels on a 3 day rotation. These creels are fishing 24/7 and many areas such as the Inner Sound have saturation coverage with little space to relocate. This level of fishing effort certainly requires control.
I was also engaged in scallop dredging several decades ago and recognise now that, along with beam trawling, it is probably the most destructive inshore fishing activity taking place.
The sea is a resource that coastal communities must use to survive, but it must be done wisely and preventing such use will result in such places becoming hollowed out and filled with the retired from wealthier parts.

 

[KeithMD]

@afterpegassus - thanks, you've reminded me of my times working in Hull and Grimsby, and talking to old fishing families. Where any man reaching 40 years old was considered exceptional, because of the mortal dangers of being a fisherman. But the relevant thing is how much they harped back to the "golden years" when hundreds or thousands of tons of fish were landed almost daily. Yet strangly oblivious to their own role in wiping out the fishing stocks, by virtue of a "catch everything" attitude. I'm all in favour of commercial fishing, if people have the sense to preserve some breeding stock via "no catch" zones.

 

[penfold]

All commercial fishing needs regulation, although the current system seems to reward bad behaviour and can encourage risk taking. Licencing fishing vessels according to their length is asinine and allowing quota or licences to be traded/leased etc just facilitates rentseeking.

 

[KeithMD]

Here's an interesting and relevant article on how the Arran No-Take Zone was established by the local community.

Our community proposed and achieved protection, in 2008, for the first community-led No Take Zone in Lamlash Bay (NTZ). In this small area of 2.67 sq. km no fishing of any sort is permitted. Look at the NTZ case study from Kerri Whiteside, FFI’s Project Manager, of the Scotland Marine Community Support Project, for a full history behind this campaign. In 2016, the South Arran Marine Protected Area (MPA) extended this area to nearly 300 sq km to exclude scallop dredging but allow for other, potentially more sustainable, fishing methods in various zones.

Our story - COAST

Does the South Arran Marine Protected Area (MPA) seem like a better model than the HPMA imposed by central government?

 

[penfold]

I'm agnostic; whether local or national there must be enough surveillance to actually enforce whatever the rules are, otherwise it's just words.

 

[ylop]

I don't believe anything we do is damaging in the UK. Anchoring is like sticking a pin in a football field.

Perhaps I can modify your analogy slightly. Anchoring is like letting a group of Duke of Edinburgh Award participants camp on your mountainside. Most of the time it will have zero impact. The tent peg (or anchor) is not necessarily where the damage comes from. Occasionally it might accidentally end up with a tent peg left behind. It's likely that there will be some other waste left too (even if you use holding tanks for black water your galley sink is probably going in the sea). Occassional use - not a problem. If every weekend the same spot was used for the same thing you do start to see some local erosion. Then if it became popular and peak season a dozen tents arrive together you start to see more issues. Now if thats once a year its still probably low impact, but if it is throughout peak season you soon see problems. Why would they go back to the same place - because there's good access to facilities, a pub, an Instagram view, shelter etc... just like idyllic anchorages. In small patches it might still be tolerable/manageable, but if they are camping close to an ideal bird nesting spot, on a meadow with a rare plant species etc. You might just want to devise some rules. So you might designate areas where holding tanks must be used, or require those putting in pontoons to encourage visitors (economically a good thing) are ensuring that there's mitigations for the downsides (e.g. good refuse disposal, maximum stays, limited seasons, signposted good practices etc).

I'm agnostic; whether local or national there must be enough surveillance to actually enforce whatever the rules are, otherwise it's just words.

potentially yachtspeople in anchorages are lot easier to spot/checkup on than dodgy fishing off shore.

I'm a major fan of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act and the "right to roam" as it is widely called. It actually works quite well with very little enforcement. The times that conflict arise (e.g. the need to introduce camping management zones on the East of L. Lomond) are actually because the existing rules are not properly understood. There is not a right to turn up in a car, set up some tents 50 yds away and carry a couple of cases or beer, a ghettoblaster, a bunch of chairs etc and build a massive fire and then leave chaos behind you. They could have achieved much the same with a publicity campaign and training for their rangers.

 

[KeithMD]

Interesting response from the Alba Party. I make no claim to its correctness, I'm just the messsenger.

ALBA claim that the proposals which could exclude coastal communities from up to 10 per cent of inland waters, place at risk “thousands of livelihoods in fragile coastal communities” and demand their immediate withdrawal. They also say that the proposals are “potentially unlawful” as they are fundamentally based not on conservation or social-economic objectives, but on an arbitrary 10 per cent target contained in the Bute House political deal between the SNP and the Greens.

You might say the leaky SNP is leaking even more. I couldn't possibly comment.

More here:
ALBA Party claim Government Marine Conservation "potentially unlawful"

 

[penfold]

If that is true it might be a winnable court fight, the trawlers aren't afraid of a barney.

 

[KeithMD]

Can anyone get past the paywall?

How the fishing ban risks leaving SNP-Green alliance up the creek ~ Humza Yousaf’s determination to press ahead with conservation measures designed to protect Scotland’s marine environment has become the latest flashpoint for his embattled ministry, exposing divisions within the SNP and exacerbating concerns that the Green Party is exercising disproportionate influence upon the Scottish government, reports the Times.

How the fishing ban risks leaving SNP-Green alliance up the creek

 

[penfold]

humza yousaf accused of losing grip over HPMAs - Scotsman

 

[dunedin]

Can anyone get past the paywall?

How the fishing ban risks leaving SNP-Green alliance up the creek ~ Humza Yousaf’s determination to press ahead with conservation measures designed to protect Scotland’s marine environment has become the latest flashpoint for his embattled ministry, exposing divisions within the SNP and exacerbating concerns that the Green Party is exercising disproportionate influence upon the Scottish government, reports the Times.

How the fishing ban risks leaving SNP-Green alliance up the creek

Maybe better it stays behind the paywall - better to stick to the maritime & yachting aspects, not the papers trying to focus on their political agendas which is not for this place

 

[dunedin]

The Scottish Government has bowed to pressure and abandoned its plans for HPMAs - Scottish government scraps marine conservation plan

 

[oldgit]

Scallop dredgers have got to be the most destructive things to the marine environment, May e followed a distant second by fishfarms. Legislate for them and forget about the miniscule effect leisure sailors/ fishermen and inshore creel boats will have.