scared fiancee - please help.

You can more or less day sail to greece choosing good weather for each trip, but it will take a long time. A delivery type trip taking maybe 5 weeks is a very different proposition and massively increases the chance of sailing in rougher conditions, requiring more crew with more experience. Many insurance companies require 3 crew for biscay (if not coast hopping) and also will only allow crossing in summer months. There are good reasons for these apparent infringements of your freedom particularly on smaller boats with inexperienced crew.
The first option is likely to help build your fiance's confidence, the second (particulary at this time of year) may well put her off for life. You need to consider the relative importance of enjoying the trip and of getting to greece to start a new lifestyle. Are the two aims mutually exclusive?
 
I remember asking a similar question in my early boating days. The reply I got was "You've got a 30 grand boat; why begrudge your wife a £300 airfare?"

Good advice if she is scared or subject to sea-sickness. In other words an out-of-season crossing of the Bay of Biscay is not the sort of thing to reassure somebody who is nervous. I have done it and we had good weather - but weather which nevertheless included a gale off NW Spain. If you must go, then an experienced third (or even fourth) person is reassuring. Comfort in numbers.

Give her time to get confidence at her own pace. Otherwise you may be faced with a cloice you may not wish to make.

Also do not under-estimate the Med. The worst sailing conditions I have met were there.

John
 
Something in your rationale is missing here my friend! You confess that your fiancee is nervous and whether she is being rational about her fears in your opinion, or not, is irrelevant. She feels scared - end of story!

She's nervous and if you force it and she grits her teeth and goes along with you out of love and loyalty and you get a good old blow in Biscay that might very well end the dream as far as she is concerned. You need to consider not only your personal abilities and desires but put her feelings and wishes as your priority instead.

Why don't you go through the canals instead, that way she has the 20 miles or so to Calais or wherever across the ditch, which she'll probably cope with so long as you pick your weather window, followed by a scenic and relaxing trip through the canals. By the time you get down to the med she'll be quite at home on the Colvic and assuming the engine gives no trouble her confidence will have become boosted. Then you can pick your weather and coast hop down to Greece or wherever with a happy girl by your side who knows that you are putting her first and not your own ego. It'll do wonders for the relationship as well.

Either that or buy her an air ticket if you insist on the Biscay/Atlantic route and you get a crew of like-minded nutters to go with you who are quite happy to make that trip with Winter approaching!

Frankly, I'd go for the being kind to fiancee option as better for both of you in the long run.
 
Never owned a boat as new as yours. Suggestion and a suprise. Why not try and book her on a weekend/week competent crew course (Practical) if there is a school near you, sailing with strangers in the same suituation may be the trigger to learn and gain confidence, same as with driving, the instructor instills this as the learner assumes that they know what they are doing. Perhaps she reads your body language as being slightly tense even though you are quite relaxed, Make sense to you?
 
pampas said:
Never owned a boat as new as yours. Suggestion and a suprise. Why not try and book her on a weekend/week competent crew course (Practical) if there is a school near you, sailing with strangers in the same suituation may be the trigger to learn and gain confidence, same as with driving, the instructor instills this as the learner assumes that they know what they are doing. Perhaps she reads your body language as being slightly tense even though you are quite relaxed, Make sense to you?
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I agree with the above, but to additionally suggest a 'girls only' course, some sailing schools do them - you'll have to check them out. Two girls I know went on a mixed course and the instructor(male) was a MCP, and put them both off for a long time. Good luck anyway. My boats 30 years old and would have no hesitation taking it on your planned trip, albeit with a few upgrades.
 
pampas said:
Why not try and book her on a weekend/week competent crew course (Practical) if there is a school near you
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After 375 couply cruising miles I think she is way beyond an RYA competent crew course. The OP needs to focus on getting south or postponing until next Spring.

I imagine her doubts will be more to do with the evenings drawing in and the inevitable rebound that comes after 3 months of cruising when the initial extended holiday buzz wears off. That is why it is good that the OP has a commercial target end point to this cruise.
 
Cliveshep said:
Something in your rationale is missing here my friend! You confess that your fiancee is nervous and whether she is being rational about her fears in your opinion, or not, is irrelevant. She feels scared - end of story!

She's nervous and if you force it and she grits her teeth and goes along with you out of love and loyalty and you get a good old blow in Biscay that might very well end the dream as far as she is concerned. You need to consider not only your personal abilities and desires but put her feelings and wishes as your priority instead.

Why don't you go through the canals instead, that way she has the 20 miles or so to Calais or wherever across the ditch, which she'll probably cope with so long as you pick your weather window, followed by a scenic and relaxing trip through the canals. By the time you get down to the med she'll be quite at home on the Colvic and assuming the engine gives no trouble her confidence will have become boosted. Then you can pick your weather and coast hop down to Greece or wherever with a happy girl by your side who knows that you are putting her first and not your own ego. It'll do wonders for the relationship as well.

Either that or buy her an air ticket if you insist on the Biscay/Atlantic route and you get a crew of like-minded nutters to go with you who are quite happy to make that trip with Winter approaching!

Frankly, I'd go for the being kind to fiancee option as better for both of you in the long run.
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By most of your comments i assume you have not read the whole post. Who said going in winter? The issues lie more with the boat, she is not a girly, she up for most things i run away from. skydiving included. Just worried our tub isnt upto scratch for a trip like this. i was just hoping to hear from others that had an 'older' boat with the same plans. It was never an option to not be nice to her so i begrudge that comment straight away. As for the £300 on a plane ticket, i dont think so - no way would she have that. I was looking for more practical suggestions/advice from people who have introduced their partners into sailing and how best to build confidence in her own skills. We don't leave the British isles until she is happy. full stop no question. Otherwise i would be enjoying the warm waters of Kos and the lovely f4-5 every afternoon.
 
sea said:
By most of your comments i assume you have not read the whole post. Who said going in winter? The issues lie more with the boat, she is not a girly, she up for most things i run away from. skydiving included. Just worried our tub isnt upto scratch for a trip like this. i was just hoping to hear from others that had an 'older' boat with the same plans. It was never an option to not be nice to her so i begrudge that comment straight away. As for the £300 on a plane ticket, i dont think so - no way would she have that. I was looking for more practical suggestions/advice from people who have introduced their partners into sailing and how best to build confidence in her own skills. We don't leave the British isles until she is happy. full stop no question. Otherwise i would be enjoying the warm waters of Kos and the lovely f4-5 every afternoon.
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Hey, I'm not intending to upset you, just responding sympathetically to your comments on her nervousness with a little advice from an old fart. I guess it was just assumed you were proposing to set off soon, I wasn't the only one making that assumption. You said that she has no confidence in an older boat, and little experience of sailing. By inference then whatever her other life skills, like the sky-diving (I would never jump out of a perfectly good aeroplane thank you very much so I admire that) sailing to Greece (is that correct?) is making her nervous, possibly because of what this mechanic said. I guess that if you have a decent engine, and you are both comfortable with sailing, there is nothing wrong with an older boat in good condition, there's an awful lot out there much older, mine is one of them.

Don't begrudge my comment about being nice, I'm old enough to have learnt that one's partner will very often agree to something they don't really want to do and never let on, yet be unhappy inside for all that. No matter how sound the boat may be or how accomplished you may be in handling it, her worries are clearly sufficiently serious for you to post about it on here asking for opinions.

Whatever you two decide to do is, at the end of the day, your choice alone, and I wish you good luck with your venture/adventure however it turns out.
 
sea said:
I was looking for more practical suggestions/advice from people who have introduced their partners into sailing and how best to build confidence in her own skills.
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From what you have said so far I think you are doing the right things, it just takes time. Are you sure the "engine concerns" are not an abbreviation for more complex worries?

I introduced my present swmbo to sailing and I have been surprised how much my body language and face are scrutinized during stressful sailing situations. Your first priority is to help her understand nautical events, developing her self confidence to accomplish crewing tasks is a secondary importance but you can tackle both objectives in parallel.

I remember turning to the swmbo after mooring in St Peter Port, noticing she was shaking I asked if she she was cold. We had entered the port just after dark and against the shore lights I had forgotten the route to the pontoons, so I knocked the engine into neutral. At the same time the cross channel ferry honked to announce it was about to move away from its berth. We were dead in front about 50m away.

The swmbo had interpreted this inconsequential big ship honk as impending certain death. She was still shaking 20 minutes later and needed her single monthly fag to calm down. Unnecessary fear all because I did not interpreted events for her.
 
I can't really comment on the suitability of your boat to go across Biscay.

What I can say is that confidence comes from knowledge plus experience, especially when it comes to engines, plus not being afraid to stay put if there is uncertainty about the condition of something important.

What breaks confidence is if something which was previously treated as a turnkey source of power turns out not to be. It changes your view of it, and also calls into question other things that you might have assumed to be "okay".

As a motorboater, I rely 100% on my engines. If anything goes wrong, I replace enough parts such that it is returned to fully working order. Bodging just isn't on the agenda (please ignore all previous postings about the "tightwad hotknife" :))

Hope this makes some sort of sense.
dv.
 
Thanks to you all. I definatly have some things to work on with her. Especially interpreting the situation to her more clearly. This was the case on our maiden voyage, loss of engine, wind and light. This is a pretty **** position for experienced sailors, when i was legging it around the deck to find ever spare bit of sheet to extend the anchor line, she thought 'if he's worried, then its got to be bad' so although speed was a priority, it scared her. We have had loads of really amazing days out now, and i feel she is getting better. But going back to an earlier comment, i think she needs to be skipper for a trip or two. I can just make the tea and relax. This should help. I think i may have been playing skipper for too long now and its time to give some responsibility to her. Its a good feeling to complete a trip and land on a friendly pontoon at the end. Maybe she needs to feel more like she is responsible for a nice safe trip.

I must add 1 thing so my point doesn't get lost.

I was quite lucky with my work so it left us with a lot of options of what we can do with life (certainly the next few years). We both decided on this as OUR dream, please dont think im dragging the misses along. She has been as much as a driving force behind this as i have. In fact without her as inspiration i would either be in Huggins boatyard or cawsand bay. She would leave tomorrow, its me that is hesitating.
 
The age of your boat is irrelevant! Statistically, I wouldn't be surprised if more newish boats need assistance because of mechanical problems than old ones. You're suffering from the comments of a crook trying to con you and probably seeing your fiancee as an ''easy target'' so she would work on you to give him the business. By next spring when you intend to go south,she should be over the jitters if you don't have any more bad luck!Try to keep her away from the doom and gloom brigade who may never have left the Solent or whichever estuary they habitually sail in!
 
Firstly why not both of you do a yachtmaster course then each of you can can be assured of theothers capabilities.

Have the boat surveyed and also checked by the RNLI.

Have the engine stripped and rebuilt, or replaced this does not need to be a new lump.

Think of sailing across the Bay in company with other yachts.

Have a 3rd crew member join in with your training sail trips to assess him/her.

If your dear love is still worried about the sea route go by way of the canal system and enjoy the trip together. What ever you both decide keep us posted.
 
Sorry to say I have a reluctant 'stunner' of a wife - she won't go on the boat at sea unless another is on as well. She agrees that my skills are enough, that I know boats etc. - but she feels unsafe with only me there - if anything goes wrong - what does she do.

Once thoughts like that are home - no matter what you do, you will never remove them. Your Fiancee has a fixation in her mind what the guy said - is that the whole story ? Have you really got whole story out of her about her fear ? Many will not tell all - Women !! They don't want to upset us .. hoping that we just cave in ...

I've tried all the avenues of getting her to meet cruising couples, I'm HLR for CA out here so have many opportunities for it, get them to explain to her how they cope with it all, she loves meeting them, seeing their boats etc ... but no change.

She goes on the river with me ... enjoys it, she used to sail the solent / south coast with me ... but a few incidents not my fault ... one being the Jetski who broadsided us ... another a broach outside Cowes Hbr ... and we have todays fear.

34ft boat ... should be capable if in good maintained condition. I have 25ft and I cross baltic with it - some reckon I'm mad ... but why not if boat is sound ... With 34ft - I don't think wife would change her mind - I'd still have same problem ..... previous wife showed me that. She never liked boats at all ... but tried to keep me happy ! I went up size to see if she would be more agreeable to boating ... she reckoned yes until actually stepping on board .. same dislike, same problem.

You are NOT alone. That's why the term "boating widow" came about ...
 
Scared Fiance - Older Yachts.

sea said:
Yep agreed, she has no probs with reliability issues engine wise, she just simply isnt used to being at sea, and the comment that the boat is too old has stuck with her, especially as we are surrounded by AWB's. I think we will make a skipper out of her yet. She does trust my skipper skills as far as i know, as apart from the above mentioned incident everything since has been plain sailing.

We are coming out of the water shortly to go through everything with a fine tooth comb. I think if we both get stuck in and use our good engineer to service and overhaul the lump that will help us, as he is an honest man and would have no probs telling us no to do it.

I would like to hear from some who have done similar trips in a similar/older boat. thanks again
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When I first started sailing folk didn't seem so concerned with the age of a boat, and I am not financially well off enough to become concerned now. Your yacht will be fine as long as you use your common sense and you've checked standing rigging etc etc.

I have a 1982 Westerly 33, standing rigging is over 10 years old now but I go up the mast regularly etc, etc. All the usual 'old school' stuff, I have emergency steering planned and ready, I am prepared for jury rigging, I carry spare standing rigging that is old but servicable, i don't want to make lists, you know them, and most out there know too. My 'old' Westerly plods about fine and I am planning (getting the money together!) to go through the Panama into the Pacific, New Zealand bound, a few years hence. The boat will outlast me unless I do something stupid.

Last comment..... Some folk see my Westerly, they like her, I keep her looking really nice, they say admiringly that they would go anywhere in her, 'old salts' have a twinkle in their eyes and I often take them out for a little sail, just on a tide, no more. Others with far more money than I have ever had look at her and ask me questions and then wonder at how I manage with so little equipment.

Don't worry, common sense, pay attention to your boat on your journey...... It's more than capable of what you plan..... MORE than capable. My home ground is the Far North of Scotland; Orkney, Shetland and Faroes my sailing grounds, they can be testing but I know it's me who finds them most testing.

All the best, and to your Fiance............ enjoy the journey, really in the grand scale of things it is a safe little journey.
 
So she is keen to leave, but frightened to death.
Sounds fairly normal to me. On thing is for sure, the age of the boat has no validity at all either in truth or in her doubts. If you bought a new one, other worries would arise.
Do your best with all the good suggestions that have been put forward, but steel yourself. If she was a born sailor she would keep quiet and crack on; either the dream or the girl may have to go.
 
Thanks for all of the above. i am sure we will make it happen. I think as soon as Europe is in sight we will both feel much better. We are going to be doing a lot of coast hopping so it won't be too different to what we have done here in the UK accept the wine will be better! I will keep you posted as to how we get on. Plenty more of the UK to explore first too. Im pleased the consensus is the boat age is irrelevant, maybe a few more customs boarding's than most!
 
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