scared fiancee - please help.

[AliM]

I think one of the problems may be that you are the expert and she feels she couldn't cope if you were ill, or incapacitated or something, and the remaining doubt about the boat will hardly help. You need to address those two points, and keep talking to her about it, so that any other doubts emerge and can be dealt with before you go.
Try:
1) A women only YM (or CS) RYA course, or a couple of days of own-boat tuition with you strictly as crew, and the instructor helping her. The latter (if you pick a helpful instructor) may help with confidence in the boat, too.
2) The RNLI check, as suggested, with a debate about the seaworthiness of the boat, generally, and how that sort of boat has done Fastnets, Atlantic crossings etc etc.
3) Some of those coastal sailing expeditions should be with her as skipper. She does all the preparation, navigation etc (and you only intervene if it's positively dangerous, and if you have to, do so constructively "Have you considered...?" rather than grabbing the tiller in panic!)
4) Share all the decisions at the preparation stage, and make a definite promise that if you disagree, then the wimpier option wins - eg whether to go, when to reef etc - and if the decision turns out to be wrong, you are not allowed to comment on that! If it turns out to be right, then you do comment ("It was just as well we reefed then", "Whew, I'm glad we didn't go out in that - it really blew up strong") I am not suggesting you give up the permenant skipper role, and some decisions have to be made quickly, so those are yours (except when she is acting skipper). I am just suggesting that you work it so she feels more in control, or at least feels able to speak up if she doesn't feel comfortable.
5) If she agrees, go with just the two of you. If she doesn't want to do that, take a crew member, but your fiancee has to be in charge when she and the extra crew are on watch, so be careful who you take.

If that all works, you'll have a super sailing partnership (as a few comments above testify).

(And I have been that nervous partner, and am now in the happy sailing partnership that I hope you achieve!)

Good luck

Ali

 

[boatmike]

Thanks for all of the above. i am sure we will make it happen. I think as soon as Europe is in sight we will both feel much better. We are going to be doing a lot of coast hopping so it won't be too different to what we have done here in the UK accept the wine will be better! I will keep you posted as to how we get on. Plenty more of the UK to explore first too. Im pleased the consensus is the boat age is irrelevant, maybe a few more customs boarding's than most!

Have read this with interest. As usual there are the "trolls" and the "thread drift" merchants trying to be smart but your question originally was not only a very reasonable one but very honest. I am 67 and have "trained" several women as crew in the past and am currently doing it again. There are several things that help.

1. At first do a lot of day sailing in reasonable weather. Avoid beating hard to windward in F6 and above if possible. If caught out swallow your pride and motor, don't press on with rails under.
2. Put her on the tiller/wheel ASAP. Being a passenger does not raise confidence as well as feeling you are in control yourself.
3. Coast hop at first if you can. I would seriously consider the canals rather than Biscay but if going that way an experienced third crew member would be a good thing to consider until you are safely across just to maintain watches and get some sleep.
4. The age of the boat is totally irrelevant. Condition is everything. Ensure all spars and rigging are good and replace if in doubt. Invest in good safety gear. A life raft is a good confidence booster as well as an essential "long stop" IMO and fire extinguishers, flares, et al should be up to date.
5. Don't listen to doom and gloom idiots. A good question to ask them is "when did you last spend more than 72 hours underway on a small seaboat then?" Most of them have never been farther than the channel islands you will find.....
6. Get her reading. Ellens book "Taking on the world" is inspirational. "Shrimpy sails again" is impossible to put down. If Shane Acton can do what he did in a tiny little plywood boat there ain't nothing you can't do in yours!
You have a wonderful once in a lifetime experience ahead of you both and you are so very lucky to have a lovely lady to share it all with. Look after her, treat her kindly, and try to "train" her to be as good as you. Most male/female boat crews are dominated by men who seem to assume women are either stupid or unable to learn basic boat handling. Next time you come in let her steer and you leap off with the lines!!
Good luck, bon voyage, and perhaps I will see you in Greece soon....

 

[Refueler]

Some excellent words ... ie Boatmike.

Trouble is some lasses / guys even - refuse to take helm, want only to be passengers. Svet - my wife is one of those. She's helmed only when she had to.
I offered courses, other boats for her to go on ... I honestly believe in the Hubby cannot Teach Wifey thing ... no matter how well you get on. It needs a person from outside the domestic circle. Bit like learning to drive a car.

I have feeling that your Fiancee may be one of the lucky ones who will learn, wants to learn in fact. So it's trying to find best route to that.
Coast hops / day sailing is fine to get her to handle tiller, sheets etc. - but never attacks the matter of distance and casting off from 'known location' ... which is a strong item to conquer for most.

I make some pretty long and surprising trips for my boat - and I still feel apprehensive before each cast off despite having been on boats since a small child and ships. I always look to my companions for agreement / support for decision to cast off.

The trick for me IMHO - is understanding what's in store. Not Confidence. Confidence can kill IMHO ... OK confidence in handling the boat - but understanding of the overall is the key and being able to cope. Maybe she feels that lack of confidence in herself giving that understanding ?

Don't give up ... find that avenue that keeps you both trucking along .. maybe she has idea what she wants to do to combat the fear ?

 

[sea]

Thanks

Hey - thank you very much. I was quite sure that this thread was going to go off on a tangent and the latter part to become totally useless to me and Hannah. The last 2 posts have again filled me with confidence that this forum has some valuable knowledge and some helpful fellow sailors that are willing to pass that on to us being younger and less experienced. Thank you again. This thread has sparked a very active member sending me a PM offering any support/advice that he has in his amazingly long boating career and now i have some other gems of advice. Funny thing is we spent most of yesterday evening "chatting" about things - and some non boaty issues arised that being the inconsiderate boyfriend i can be sometimes, i had simply overlooked.

I have made a note of everything that i feel is valuable info. So i can't thank you enough. I am 100% sure that she would be able to do ANYTHING she put her mind to as she is just that type of person! (took her skiing a few times last year - end of week one she is straight lining every blue run in sight!)

She doesn't know it but she will be responsible for our next journey/trip from nav's to engine checks. I will simply act as mentioned above.

As for maybe see you in Greece. I will be in Kos, and any of you will be welcome to come out and try your hand at windsurfing. I think a blog may be in order for departure, so maybe she can encourage other less experience/worreid people to know that it can be done!

You have again restored my faith in this forum which has once saved our skin!

THANK YOU!

 

[boatmike]

The trick for me IMHO - is understanding what's in store. Not Confidence. Confidence can kill IMHO ... OK confidence in handling the boat - but understanding of the overall is the key

Well it's semantics but it's good to be confident of your ability, but doubt everything else! There are two old sayings....

No one ever ran aground by being unsure of their position..... They were always totally sure and wrong!

There are old sailors and bold salors but very few old, bold sailors....

But then somebody else said the secret of staying young is to frighten yourself every day!!! So take your pick!

 

[davidfox]

Didnt the UFO 34 do well in the 79 fastnet? as long as nothing falls off I wouldnt think there would be a problem you appear to have done a fair bit, take it a bit easy and start off with day sail hops down the coast. Over the door at Brize Norton Number 1 Parachute Training School 'Knowledge Dispels Fear'

It didnt dispel it in my case just replaced it with severe apprehension.

 

[Refueler]

The trick for me IMHO - is understanding what's in store. Not Confidence. Confidence can kill IMHO ... OK confidence in handling the boat - but understanding of the overall is the key

Well it's semantics but it's good to be confident of your ability, but doubt everything else! There are two old sayings....

No one ever ran aground by being unsure of their position..... They were always totally sure and wrong!

There are old sailors and bold salors but very few old, bold sailors....

But then somebody else said the secret of staying young is to frighten yourself every day!!! So take your pick!

I missed the word OVER confidence .... sorry. For me respect for the sea and what it can do has been demo'd many a time on ship etc.

I reckon OP and Fiancee will be OK - he seems to want to make it work .. and I get impression that she also. So Good Luck to them.

 

[ninky]

i don't think you should try to convince your fiancee too much. either her heart is in it or it isn't. as the female skipper on our boat i get scared - but it's my choice to be there. and i wouldn't force my OH to join in the adventure if he was scared and unwilling. after all, as you say, no matter what experience or capability or safety equipment sailing does have dangers and it's not fair to put others in the way of these if they aren't up for it.

my sister is married to a man who is terrified of flying. much as she likes to travel she's had to reconcile herself to the fact he's not going to fly overseas. if you sail you are going to face heavy weather, equipment failure and scary situations. when this happens you need to know it was both of your choices to be there. and in this case it just doesn't sound like it is.

sorry but it's up to her whether she listens to the doomsayers or the heroic adventurers.

 

[sea]

Thanks, just a quick reply, its not a matter of forcing her to do anything, just HOW to make things easier.

Thanks to refueler - Very kind words which are greatly appreciated. My notebook is filling up with ideas.

You probs dont know how much some of you have helped already!

 

[Danny Jo]

i don't think you should try to convince your fiancee too much. either her heart is in it or it isn't.

. . .

sorry but it's up to her whether she listens to the doomsayers or the heroic adventurers.

What a great thread, and what a sensible reply!

Reading the earlier posts set me thinking. Hmm, I wonder if there is a parallel thread on another forum along the lines: "My boyfriend and I have invested everything we have in a 1983 Colvic UFO 34. It is now our home. The plan was to leave Britain and start a new business, and a new life in Greece. The problem is that my boyfriend, who at 21 is three years younger than me, has set his heart on what we call 'the great escape', but I have developed misgivings about the plan.

"My friends laughingly refer to me as Wendy, looking for Never-Never Land, and ask how Peter is getting along, and I'm beginning to feel that they're right. I love him very much and don't want to let him down, but how do I persuade him that our prospects are really much better here in Britain? I've tried telling him I'm scared, the boat's to old, I don't have enough experience, but he won't take the hint."

 

[sea]

Sorry i appreciate the reply, and i agree its a good thread. BUT we have done it all together. Age doesnt matter. And as mentioned its OUR dream, now mine. We decided on this together. She wants to leave more than me, i just want her to enjoy the experience of getting there as much as i will. Im not pushy and would give up the boat and the dream in a heartbeat if she said she was having second thoughts.

Slightly off the mark IMHO.

 

[snooks]

Didnt the UFO 34 do well in the 79 fastnet?

Yep, Black Arrow, a UFO 34 won her class (IV) in the 79 Fastnet, the only casualties were a winch handle and torch which went over the side and a old storm spinnaker which was past it's use by date....It was a joint services boat with 6 blokes on it (one was my dad), but Black Arrow came through it and her crew used well proven storm tactics and came out the other side, there is a short report in the September issue of YM

Anyway, one way to get confidence in your boat is to use it, day sails etc and build up the miles, slowly but surely. If Biscay is going to cause friction, consider something like the Rally Portugal which will get you down to the bottom of Portugal. Maybe take someone else just for the Biscay crossing....or get help going to Santander/Bilao which have ferry routes back again?

A friend of my dad sailed from Falmouth to Santander (with my dad) then on to Cyprus singlehanded, in a 1979 29ft Dufour 29. He did it by day sailing around to Majorca and then a 3 day passage to Italy IIRC then onto Greece from there.

Always take her thoughts and feelings into consideration (as you are) and find out how she would like to get more confidence, it makes for a happy boat

 

[Danny Jo]

Sorry i appreciate the reply, and i agree its a good thread. BUT we have done it all together. Age doesnt matter. And as mentioned its OUR dream, now mine. We decided on this together. She wants to leave more than me, i just want her to enjoy the experience of getting there as much as i will. Im not pushy and would give up the boat and the dream in a heartbeat if she said she was having second thoughts.

Slightly off the mark IMHO.

Accepted. It was only a thought, and your penultimate sentence shows that you have covered that base.

 

[Mudisox]

It is perfectly possible to sail round to the Eastern Med and back without ever not sleeping every night in a snug harbour/anchorage, and awaiting favourable weather conditions; just take your time and enjoy the places that you visit and the people there, without thinking of each stop as a parking place for the night, on a delivery trip.. That way you can involve your partner and give them time and space to adjust to the new way of life and thought pocesses. You'll have plenty of things to learn more and gain experience, both of you.

 

[bilbobaggins]

I'm just thinking, having pored over the synoptic forecast charts for the next week, that this is looks like probably the optimum time this end-of-summer to head off across Biscay.

 

[goboatingnow]

I too have the nervous wife syndrome, which all stemed from an incident many years ago , on a lake in bad weather,

I'd be very careful about "convincing " her to do the whole journey especially if she has little experience, and I would definitly bring another experienced person along ( not a novice, they reenforce each others fears).

Better, would be to fly here to say Lagos and pick her up there, though the Med can give you a right ******* of a nasty sail in certain circumstances. The key thing is not to re-enforce the fears, Then you could get the dreaded " shove your boat where the sun dont shine " type of thing. She needs more exposure, more knowledge and more experience before attemting this type of voyage. I suspect her concerns re condition of boat are really her own fears disguised

tread carefully and you will have a lifelong sailing partner.

 

[misterg]

I would like to pose the simple question, would you make the trip in a boat of this age. It is in amazing condition and structurally sound. Or would you be kind enough to reassure her that we have a good tub and god willing it will take us where we want to go?

It all depends how well prepared the boat is.


Someone above said "pay attention to your boat" - those are very wise words.

You may well have ample sailing and navigation skills for the trip, but are you sure that you have the nouse to spot little problems developing, and the ability to fix / contain them? Your posts tend to give the impression that you aren't confident in this aspect, and are looking for others to assure you that the boat will be OK. This may not be the case, but it's the impression that comes over to me.

Perhaps your partner is picking up on your misgivings? If you don't come across as confident here, perhaps you come across similarly to her? (Sorry - not trying to be cruel or rude.)

Whatever the design or age of the boat, I don't see how anybody can give you that assurance unless they've been over every nut, bolt, hose, rigging screw, skinfitting, wire, bottle-screw, system, etc. etc. on her. It's your necks that are at risk, so you might as well do this yourselves. I can't see that you've had time to do this in the few weeks you've owned the boat, but apologise in advance if I'm wrong.

It would be interesting to know how long it took to prepare 'Black Arrow' for the Fastnet.

Still, if you're not crossing imminently, you've got another 7 months, or so to get some serious sailing time sailing time in around the UK to build up confidence in the boat and get to know her inside out.

I'm sure 'nerves' are normal - just cover all the bases before you set off.

Good luck with your venture.

Andy

 

[Mavro]

I agree with the comments that it comes down to the condition of your specific boat.

However with regards to "old" boats I can tell that I did the Fastnet this year in a 1974 Dick Carter 34. I'm not experienced enough yet to be an expert in the structural integrity of a different boats. However one of the crew was a boat builder and he had absolute confidence in her strength and ability to handle the Fastnet.

I can also say she certainly handled the confused swells of the Irish Sea a lot better than some of the more modern boats of similar size that I've sailed.

Good luck. It sounds like you have a great adventure ahead of you, which ever path you take.

I wish I could persuade my girlfriend to do the same - and she is greek!

 

[gregmlucas]

Books?

There are a couple of books I've read that might be of interest.

Dolphins Under My Bed is written by the female half of a (50s?) couple who left the UK to go south on a Solaris Cat (I think).

Sailing Promise is written by the femail half of a couple from Canada (IIRC) who spent a couple of years sailing round the world on an old Prout.

Sorry for the multihull bias but they are both written from the women's perspective so may help

 

[webcraft]

Go for it

.
My wife and I have been from Scotland to the Canaries and back in our 1973 Albin Vega 27, age and size of boat is not a problem. If you are confident in the rig then the UFO 34 has a reputation as a good, solid fast offshore cruiser and should look after you. If you stage from Falmouth or the Scillies you can be in La Coruna in around four days, a short enough time to get a reliable weather window.

I would prefer to know I could trust my engine simply because it is good to know you can motor for a day or so if becalmed. Sitting bobbing around in the middle of Biscay for three days going nowhere because you are a purist and it is a sailing boat then getting hit by a gale when you could have been across would be a bit frustrating. We did one long distance cruise with an unreliable old Volvo (round Ireland) and that was enough to convince us to bite the bullet and fit a new Beta before our big trip.

- W