Scanmar / Scanyacht / Scanner owners

Sure, i'll pass on anything that I find. I just spoke to a friend (shipwright) here in Tasmania, he's confirmed my feeling that any significant play in the bearing should be fixed before any open ocean sailing.

Glad to hear that they're the Whitlock system, should be nice and positive at the helm. I've been leasing an old Farr 40, tiller steer for the past year, so lots of feel and very responsive and spins on a dime. It would be hard going to a spongy wheel system from that. I can see why you would want to replace the ram that's causing the dampening. I'm having to go cheap on the autopilot so I'll install the Raymaring Wheel Pilot. I think the 391's displacement is within their operating limits ok.

Great tip for the instruments, I'll pay close attention to that.

Is there an emergency tiller / aux. steering capability on the 391's?

At the airport now for my trip to Sydney, and of course the flight is delayed due to storms and flooding in Sydney...sigh! Hope it backs off a bit for the sea trail tomorrow, at least we'll have some wind though, easterly around 15kt is forecast.

Thanks for you help and advice!
 
The emergency tiller fits to the top of the rudder stock where it emerges through the cockpit floor. The rudder is semi-balanced and the steering is very light unless the boat is very hard pressed.
 
Ah good, the survey listed: Aux. Steering - None sighted. So I wasn't sure if there was no facility for this or he just didn't find the emergency tiller itself. Something to check properly tomorrow. Thanks again, I'll let you know how I go.

Btw no reply from Scanyacht yet re: bearing construction/drawings.
 
Looks great! I can understand your thinking Graham. With my purchase, I'm in a different mode altogether. This one's very much a dooeruperer.
 
Well just an update guys, we've purchased the Scanyacht 391 - Yaa hoo!

I took it for a test sail last week and I was very happy with how she sailed. Lovely light and balanced steering as you mentioned DJE. The test sail was hilarious though. I mentioned the boat has been run down and needs some love... lots of love actually, particulary the rigging. Both standing and running are in poor condition. We were sailing in some ocassionall fresh and gusty conditions and Peter (the broker) was having to work the main sheet pretty often. The sheet was literally falling apart in his hands, with the cover shredding off everywhere. We were wondering if it would make it back to the marina, but all credit to that rope manufacturer, it did hang in! I must take a photo of it when I'm back up there so you can see it.

Regarding the rudder bearing, I spoke at length to the local shipwright who inspected it while it was out of the water and I've been assured that the movement is; within operating tolerance, not needing repair yet and above all - safe to sail back to Tasmania. I also had a reply from the designer/builder Nils-Eric Olofsson. He mentioned that after producing nearly 200 of this model to date, the brass sleeve lower bearing setup is very robust and they don't see issues with them. No tech drawings were forthcoming unfortunately, It's fairly clear from what Nils-Eric described, and my observations, that the design is a simple heavy bronze tube within which the SS rudder stock runs. The bronze tube/bearing is encased in the vertical fiberglass tube that is in turn moulded to the hull. There's a 70mm (or so) long rubber sleeve partially encased and then protruding from the top of the fiberglass structure, to act as a water/grease seal I presume.

The local shipwright was saying that in order to do a repair later on, one could firstly look at trying to shim the wear out by wrapping/inserting a thin bronze sheet around the the stock while the rudder is dropped. Or otherwise, just cut that whole vertical tube out, renew the bronze tube and replace/re-fiberglass in again. Another option he mentioned would be to fit a modern style plastic bearing setup instead - like those used on many production boats. I think I'll just wait until its next antifoul, then drop the rudder and have a good look with a shipwright friend here in Tamania. If you happen to look at yours before me DJE, I'd be really interested in your observations and opinion?

I did a good crawl around the quadrant area too and there's no evidence of water intrusion at all, and the whole setup looks nice and beefy! I found the grease nipple on the vertical fiberglass tube that encases the bronze bearing, it's very corroded however and probably hasn't seen a greese gun in a long time, hence the wear. So I'll be trying to clean that up enough to squeeze some grease in straight away.

I also pulled the compass off the top of the pedestal so I could inspect the rack and pinion setup. I'd noticed just a tiny bit of movement in the wheel when moved from a neutral position. Sure enough there was a tiny bit of wear in the pin that locks the rack to the top of the vertical shaft running below deck. Have a look at this vid I took, this was back at the dock and I was just rocking the wheel very gently from side to side. Looks like an easy fix for a later date, however I'll get the local shipwright to have a look just to confirm it's safe for the delivery trip.


B.t.w. found the emergency tiller attachment point on top of the rudder stock, but haven't actually found the tiller handle yet. I haven't looked hard yet, it's probably tucked away somewhere on board. If you have a handy pic of your tiller DJE I'd like to see it? just in case I need to fabricate one.
 
Congrtulations. I hope you enjoy her.
Sounds like she is in a similar state to mine when I bought her - she had been sitting in a marina berth for 4 years. Mainsheet is holding up but one of the genoa sheets parted last season. Nice to know that there is a solid bronze tube around the rudder stock. I replaced the grease nipple on mine last winter but I was a bit wary about applying too much pressure with the grease gun. Think I'll have another go now.
The emergency tiller is just a straight section of stainless steel tube that fits over the spigot on the clamp on top of the rudder stock. I will get some measurements and pictures when I'm down at the boat tomorrow.
 
Right, emergency tiller details:-

Fitting on top of rudder stock under helmsman's seat:-

Tiller%20Fitting.jpg



Tiller stowage under chart table:-

Tiller%20Stowage.jpg



Tiller fitted:-

Tiller%20in%20Place.jpg
 
We had a good hard look at the steering over the weekend to try and work out why the autopilot fails after several hours continuous use. Disconnected the Whitlock drag link and the autopilot ram and there was still far too much friction in the bearings. Actually quite difficult to turn using the tiller! Lifting the rudder up and down a few mm and oiling the top bearing helped but I don't think there is much grease in the tube and what there is is pretty old. There is huge resistance to the grease gun and it is very difficult to get any more grease in. So we are going to drop the rudder - at least far enough to expose the section of stock which is inside the tube, clean and grease that section then put it back and see how it feels. If it is still no good then we will have to get the boat lifted and drop the rudder right out to clean out the tube. Then I am going to fit a remote lubricator so that I don't have to climb into the cockpit locker with the grease gun any more.

Rudder stock detail below, top tiller arm is for the Whitlock drag link and bottom one for the autopilot ram. Two-part grease nipple on tube is leaking due to back pressure from grease in tube. I can't get the grease gun onto a single part straight grease nipple - hence the plan for a remote lubricator.

Rudder%20Tube.jpg
 
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Yes DJE I'm sure the auotpilot wouldn't like working that hard if the bearing is stiff/binding, probably tripping an overload do you think? Looks like you've got a good plan though. I guess there is a possibility that the friction is in the top bearing. You may be able to test this by turning the stock once it's dropped out of the top bearing, if it turns with less resistance then it's a problem with the top bearing and possibly an easier fix. You've probably thought of that anyway. How are you going to drop the rudder a bit? Is the boat in the water or on a hard stand at the moment?

Let me know how it goes? Here's a photo of my rudder stock/lower bearing, I note that the top of the fiberglass tube on yours looks different, mine in a rubber sleeve (green bit) edit: no the green section is not a rubber sleeve, it’s the top of the bronze tube.
IMG_5969.jpg
 
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Took the autopilot tiller arm off, propped the rudder off the ground, then took the clamp off the top of the stock and lowered the rudder about a foot. Once the stock was cleaned and re-greased everything was fine. The rudder is heavy. Two of us couldn't lift back into position without the use of timber levers.
 
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