Sanctions

[Peppermint]

Magic got me thinking with his licensing thread.

When someone does something outrageously stupid afloat. Should there be a method of sanction. At present unless death or injury are the outcome it seems the worst you can expect is a good bollocking from the CG or harbour authorities.



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[jamesjermain]

Scale?

What do you suggest:

Missing stays Fined £10
Grounding on rising tide Fined £20
Grounding on falling tide Fined £50
Failing to give way to right of way yacht 6 months prison
Excessive merriment after midnight Life imprisonment
etc

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[spark]

Outrageously stupid that does no harm to anyone else (other than upset their sense of propriety)?
No sanctions, please, there but for the grace of God...

Outrageously stupid that results in the coastguard/lifeboat being asked to intervene to prevent death, injury or damage to self or my own property?
Sanction is the shame and contrition at having been found to be a prat.

Outrageously stupid that causes death, injury or damage to a third party?
Sanctions already exist and are administered by the courts.

What more do we need?


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[Dyflin]

>Outrageously stupid that results in the coastguard/lifeboat being asked to >intervene to prevent death, injury or damage to self or my own property?
>Sanction is the shame and contrition at having been found to be a prat.

Good in theory, except for idiots like Tony Bullimore. He cost the Aus. Navy, Government and thereby population a fortune by sending a ship and long range aircraft deep into the "southern ocean". What shame and contrition did he show? None, he became a "hero", all for surviving for a few days whilst others risked life and limb to go and get him. He made a fortune out of all the subsequent public appearances and so far as I've heard, only ever gave the Australians his thanks in return. I firmly believe he should have made a substantial contribution to either the Australian Navy/government or their lifeboat service. This goes for any other ocean racers who force others to retrieve them for remote parts of the world.

On the other hand, I don't believe that average people should be given a bill if they are the subjects of a call out. It will put life unnecessarily at risk as people will try to attempt to rescue themselves or hang on to see what happens instead of getting onto the CG.

If I ever find myself on the receiving end of help from the RNLI or any other rescue agency then I'll certainly be the first to open my wallet when safely back on dry land and show my greatful appreciation.

~Dyflin


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[Violetta]

No!

Life, the sea and the common law provide quite enough sanctions as it is. The terrible urge to control everything should be controlled at all costs!



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[bigmart]

Re: No!

I couldn't agree more.

Martin

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[Peppermint]

Re: Are these outrageous enough? nm

nm

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[bigmart]

Re: Are these outrageous enough? nm

Most Harbour Authorities have the ability to enforce fines etc. The MCA will come down on anyone who is majorly stupid. Why does it need anything more?

Martin

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[Tantalus]

It begins with..."There ought to be a law". Soon followed by..."Well, apparently the penalties aren't stiff enough for people to pay attention...don't they know they're doing something illegal?" Capped off with..."We need to crack down on these people who are flouting this law"
It is thinking like that which has brought about the situation in the U.S. where fully 1 out of every 150 people are currently incarcerated. It's also estimated that, overall, more than three percent of the population is under some form of "supervision of the courts"

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[Twister_Ken]

Sanctions don\'t work.

Ask the UN for details.

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[Magic_Sailor]

I agree.

The Chichester chopper pissed me off and added to my train of thought - although apparently

pissed off = whining

Hence the points on the licence, insurance premium increase - acts as a sanction.

I do take on board most peoples comments about

licence does not = better sailor

But I do think it might lead to a general improvement.

Magic



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[Magic_Sailor]

Re: No!

Will you apply sanctions to your forum chums if they don't control their urge to want to control things.

Could you control yourself enough to do that. Or would you sanction yourself for losing control of your ability to not control others...not....er um

/forums/images/icons/smile.gif/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Did my thread just get hijacked?

Magic

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[Magic_Sailor]

unnecessary aggression on a forum

Stand in the corner with a dunces hat on.

Magic

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[Magic_Sailor]

Septics don\'t count

They're too wierd to be a useful criteria on which to base an assessment.

Duck..again.

I take that back - we seem hell bent on becoming America - something I am not in favour of.

Magic

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[Violetta]

\"I think it might\"

Unfortunately, that is too often the basis of our legislation and regulation. And a hopelessly inadequate basis it is too.

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[Violetta]

Eh?

On the whole, I lack any significant urge to control anyone - I have a hard enough time with myself (and, of course, the cats) However, I do make an exception in that I will always be tempted to restrain the activities of those that fail to resist their urge to restrain my activities. Only the me-restraining activities, you understand, not their activities in general. Let others look after themselves.

Does that help?

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[jamesjermain]

Re: unnecessary aggression on a forum

No aggression intended, just humour (failed obviously)

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[Martin_Billings]

Re: Stick or carrot?

How about giving responsible users who don't waste the resources of the emergency services a tax rebate?




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[Guest]

I do not accuse the postee but..

generally I find that we have 2 factions here ....

1 - Those with Yottie qualifications, particularly those that have JUST gained them .... start the 'when licences etc. will be required ....' debate...

2 - Those like me who don't have a Yottie paper and don't agree that they sort it out ...... and really aren't bothered to get one !

Bad car drivers are out there in all the styles and types imaginable .... having a driving licence and exam to get it doesn't make us better drivers or safer ..... admittedly it reduces the number of idiots venturing out without lessons etc., but I do not think that licences are the answer on boats. Despite my lack of Yottie doc. - I do have Commercial, bit of an over-kill and not completely relevant to a sailboat etc. BUt I have been with boats all my life .... I sail in both REGULATED licence only waters of the Baltic ... Estonia / Latvia and also the unregulated non-licenced UK waters ...... Taking into account the difference in sheer numbers of boats and 'boaters' - I really do not see any difference and any better boat manners / handling in Baltic than I do in Solent ... OK yes there are some absolute idiots in the Solent - normally racing or some other activity ... but I've seen some classic antics out here as well !!!! The UK does not have a monopoly on 'em !!!!

The EU .... actually the French and others will no doubt 'bring those bloody British' to heel one day and force us to have a Boat Licence ..... probably as daft as the EU passport we have to carry now with bar-code and lack of pages etc.

Oh well - Baltic is up for EU next year .... I'll have to find another 'bolt-hole' to escape Brussels !!!!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Who was it who said ....

One man's freedom ends where another's begins ??

Seems about right for this ???

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !