Sanctions

[bigmart]

Re: I do not accuse the postee but..

I assume from the tone of your posts that you would lump me with the No regulation/No paperwork brigade. If this is the case I would hate to disilusion you but I have qualifications coming out of my ears (Yachtmaster Offshore with Commercial Endorsment). I just think that people learn better when the aquisition of qualifications is acieved because of the desire to learn rather than gain the ticket.

Martin

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[Guest]

You do an injustice sir ....

Uh hum .... my post was a generalisation not an attack on individuals.

Second I based it on a myriad of conversations overheard, involved in, walked out of and generally heard over the years of messing about in boats.

Anyone who actually really knows me - also understands that I do not look upon the licences / examinations lightly - in fact I admire those who genuinely do it for want to learn and improve. Where I can I help others who ask of it .... whether it be Rule of the Road, star-sights, sails, boat-surveys, diesel and fuel problems etc. etc. My trade is and has served me well - I do not object to pass on what I can. But don't ask me to justify beaurocratic indoctrinated Licencing regulations ......


Its just that I get annoyed and tired of the do-good attitude that some try to generate by their newly acquired piece of paper...... Now you cannot deny that it happens ....

So if I offended you - I apologise, but I also accept yours for not knowing me better !!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[bigmart]

Re: You do an injustice sir ....

I was not offended, by your comments, at all. I merely wanted to point out that you cant generalise. Many times I have contributed to threads regarding compulsory licensing & over that time I have distilled some thoughts about those who advocate it. This may sound aggressive/offensive to some but I have no desire to attack any individuals. I know many unqualified people who have skills that I envy & a few qualified people with whom I would not step on the same boat.

It seems to me that those who advocate compulsory licensing in many ways consider themselves as better than those they desire to regulate. Imagine the shock the first time they were pulled over for dangerous boating. There also seems to be an element of the playgroung tell tale who wants to rush to authority to protect them. You know the "Tell em miss he was nasty to me". The trouble is that when they rush to authority in this case they are throwing away my freedom & the freedom of the majority of boaters who are not in the least concerned about the odd, rogue nasty boater. The fact that areas like the Solent are so crowded means that these kind of incidents happen there more frequently. Why wreck the freedom of the boaters over the rest of the country?

The figures speak for themselves.

There is no need for regulation.

All this fuss is caused by a few (a Minority) of people who do not really have the strength of character to handle this type of situation. One might suggest that 20 years or so ago they may not have been considered as mature enough to skipper a boat. Society is changing.

We all suffer enough because of the elitist image of boating. Bring in licensing & you will make it harder for people to take up our passtime & ultimately make us a target for society to attack. Remember Fox Hunting, you may not like hunting but, you would find it hard to deny that there wasn't an element of bash the toffs in that legislation. There was some bloke in Germany in the 1930's who new the benefits of rallying a nation against a common enemy. Now I'm not suggesting it could get that bad but the next time the government size us up for an unfair tax just think how the average working class bloke in London, Birmingham or Manchester sees us.

Martin



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[Neal]

Please be careful with generalisations..nm

I don't find the correlation between views on compulsory licensing, and level of qualification is anything like as clear cut as you believe.



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[Guest]

One of the biggest problems ...

is that generalisation does happen and is the trend on a forum .... it has to be as its not individual or personal enough.

I advocate freedom of the seas, but also see the logic of learning skills. But therein lies a danger ....

I often am invited into Russian speaking schools in my area and the kids want to speak to an actual english person ... to practice / improve their english ...... Now its the kids ask for it ... not the school imposing. It is amazing the difference in what they learn and remember from it ... but if it ws imposed - that would be a completely different story.

As in the driving test ----- learn the essential bits and ignore the overall education ... so you get a licence based on passing a test - not because you are a good driver. In the case of Yot docs .... I think the same would happen ... as I see it in Estonia and Latvia ... learn the bits necessary and sod the rest !!! When its annual boat inspection ... borrow the necessary items from friends boat ..... my race boat in Tallinn with its annual 'MOT' has less on it than my non-regulated cruise boat in UK ... I mean a lot less !!!!

Encouragement of voluntary system would be far better than a compulsory one........

I certainly do not agree with the situation where a person with a bit of money goes out buys a boat, loads up the family and then puts himself, family and others in serious danger due to ignorance of simple basic boating skills. But how do you sort it out .... and don't quote legislate licencing ..... it needs sensible advertising - without scare-mongering which will kill off any new influx of people to one of the worlds best sports / pastimes ...

I have no answer for it, but shy away from govt and EU inflicted systems. The RCD system has supposedly improved the seaworthiness and classification of boats .... has it, judging by the confusion and comments of many it hasn't really sorted it yet ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

But diesn\'t that depend..

on what you hear, has been said to you, company you keep etc.

I said if you look at it and understand my meaning that I have found that ..... the emphasis on 'I' have found ..... I do not say that all have found or believe it.

Maybe its because most of UK sailing is done around the mid-south caost where a lot of 'cods-wallop' and money is talking instead of old salts ..... sorry to mid-south coats UK sailing community - as I do not mean to generalise that one, but I think that many would understand what I mean with that one !!!!..... nice cap, blue blazer with the old badge on, finished off with the suave white 'duck' trousers !!

I really enjoy sailing wherever I am ... Solent, Tallinn, Ventspils etc. etc. etc. even when I was down US Gulf way ... now there really are some dum sods around there !!! Even the US CG rate it nearly as high as the Florida lot !!!!

But cum'on I put my pont and some agree, some don't - allow me that !!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Violetta]

Even better.....

Who else here (except Cornishman, possibly) holds a Salcombe Harbour Commercial Pleasureboatman's License? (Circa 1969. when pleasureboatmen WERE pleasureboatmen) Eh? Huh! I thought not.

For the record, I'm like bigmart - all the usual stuff - for yachts, keelboats and dinghies - all acquired yonks ago (when you had to know about reeving thingies to advantage and passing stoppers - sounds painful, doesn't it? - and suchlike) And yes, I learned a huge amount from doing all of them - especially the Yachtmaster practical with the wonderful Pugwash of treasured memory (Frank Jose, God bless him) I also earned my living for a while as an instructor in the RYA scheme. I have the impression that the people posting here that still do that are certainly not in the forefront of the compulsory training brigade.

I'm opposed to foxhunting, but I wouldn't ban it by law. I'm in favour of good training, but I wouldn't make it compulsory. A "Good Thing" to "there should be a law" is often a step too far.

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[Magic_Sailor]

Re: \"I think it might\"

People who rely on the extensive results of investigations and the endless analysis of statistics are usually the same people who never get anything done.

When people start spouting numbers at me I tend to think they're lying or they've got something to hide. Or they're obfuscating to stop something happening. Politicians use that ploy a lot of course.

My experience is that people who go on what they feel is right often are. As my original post made plain - this premise is based on my experience - which is as valid as anybody's. (If not more so IMHO /forums/images/icons/smile.gif).

Magic

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[Magic_Sailor]

No

But at least we remained civil!

Magic

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[Magic_Sailor]

Re: unnecessary aggression on a forum

Not you old chap! Yours was a perfectly pleasant piece of humour.

I was trying to continue (obviously failed miserably as well!)

Magic

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[Violetta]

People, yes. Governments, no nm

nm

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[Magic_Sailor]

Re: You do an injustice sir ....

Are you accusing me of being a do-gooder!

Egad sir, I've never been so insulted. My post was purely self centred.

Magic

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[Violetta]

My dear Sir!

Of course we remained civil. We are Yachtsmen! We are Gentlemen! Some of us are Ladies!

May I be of further assistance? I would be delighted to provide further clarification. You have but to say the word and I shall do all in my power to satisfy your insatiable curiosity.

In the meantime, have a great Easter

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[Magic_Sailor]

Re: You do an injustice sir ....

Martin

I don't think I've ever read such a load of arrogant, offensive shite in my life.

"All this fuss is caused by a few (a Minority) of people who do not really have the strength of character to handle this type of situation. One might suggest that 20 years or so ago they may not have been considered as mature enough to skipper a boat. Society is changing".

Who the bloody hell do you think you are!

I'm quite happy to deal with people face to face. However, in the case of the Chichester chopper (and I'm beginning to think he was you) he was going so fast that he was gone before I'd even made it up on deck.

It is people that display your arrogance that are the problem. Your username says it all - you even have to tell us all you're big.



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[jimi]

Re: People, yes. Governments, no nm

Trouble with all these things is that they're all stick and no carrot. Perhaps a system of rewards ought to be instigated? Forexample when ever gives way wghen obliged to, a creme egg is thrown to the give way vessel. If someone gives way when they do'nt have to then maybe a Belgian choc is tossed across?

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[BrendanS]

Re: calm down

I've looked back at this entire thread, and don't see anything arrogant or offensive in what Bigmart stated. He's as much at liberty to state an opinion as you, and the forums thrive on the difference in beliefs of many people

You're starting to become personal in your posts. Take a little time to read the thread from start to finish, and not zoom in on one or two sentences.

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[bigmart]

Re: You do an injustice sir ....

No I'm not the Chichester Chopper although My boat is now moored in Chichester Harbour. You never know we might bump into each other (not literally I hope). I am a Raggie & I believe your friend the Chichester Chopper was a Stinkie. The Harbour Patrol said they'ed deal with it. Why isn't that enough for you & do you think that licensing would change anything about the severity of their actions.

You may think me arrogant. Thats your perogative. I think that you do not have any regard for my & the majority of boaters freedom. You appear to be prepared to throw away the freedom of all because one bloke annoyed you last week, & your still wittering on about it. It was one incident get a sense of proportion about this. A couple of years ago a Stinkie cut across my stern so close he cut my fishing lines 10 Feet from the boat. Yes I was pissed. No I don't think all Stinkies are that bad. Of course my opinion may change.

As to who do I think I am. I'm bigmart with a small "b" & for big read fat, round or even blubbery. I don't much care what you call me. Thats up to you. However you are confirming my opinion of you.

For the record I consider your arrogant attitude to my freedom offensive. I will let you determine whether its shite or not.

Martin

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[Magic_Sailor]

This isn\'t offensive and personal then?

Bigmart: "All this fuss is caused by a few (a Minority) of people who do not really have the strength of character to handle this type of situation".

Brendan

I did read the whole post and if you look at the rest of the thread you'll also see I've injected and maintained a little humour.

You will also find that bigmart has done this repeatedly hence - finally - my justified and annoyed response.

Magic

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[Neal]

Nigel, I\'m (partly) on your side!..

I am against compulsory licensing too. I know my 40+ years of sailing is of far more real benefit than my paper qualifications.

I am just very wary of generalisations - whether based on someone's qualifications, colour, religion, where they sail or what they wear when sailing. I think they are divisive and dangerous.

You obviously find then useful, I find them objectionable. We'll have to agree to differ on this one!

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[Guest]

Fishing lines ....

my line was cut a few yards off my stern by the old gaffer that plies the solent .... and I've got the digi-photie to prove it !!!!

So its not only the stinkies that do it !!! But I reeled in, set it up again and put it down to days plod around the solent !!! Annoyed me for about 1/2 hour .... then sod it who cares !!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !