San Marino Flag for pleasure craft in the Med

Tranona said:
There is no ICC Ocean. The ICC is very basic and of course you can get one with an advanced qualification. However you can also get one after a morning assessment by an authorised examiner as I did. All the ICC does is certify that you can demonstrate knowledge of basic rules and can handle your boat at a basic level. It is a certificate of competence, not a qualification.
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May I give you some update of the "Schweizer Hochseeschein" = "Swiss Certificate of Competence for Ocean Yachting"
1733216145230.png

see: Kurse - Bootschule Zürichsee, Obersee Ihre Bootsschule
It's not available with some money and some nice examiner in half a day ... ... :)
 
Crossed purposes here regarding use of the phrase "ICC". I think Skipper felice should really be saying "Swiss certif of Competence" not ICC.
 
Skipper Felice said:
I see the point - sry ... what is "red ensign state" ?
What state / flag would you recomend for my project ? I guess you have outstanding experience.
Thanks
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Red ensign state means a state whose boats fly a RE. Legalistically that's UK, the "Crown Dependencies" and the "UK Overseas Territories". UK, Jersey, Guernsey, IoM, Gib, Cayman, BVI, St Helena, Bermuda and a few other countries that you're unlikely to choose.

Which to choose? Bucket them between those you like/dislike for personal reasons, then (I suggest) rank based on length of registration (eg Jersey is 10 years; UK is 5), plus rank based on the annual cost and hassle of appointing a local agent (which you will need to do when you don't live in the flag state). Third party agent costs I guess will be in the €4k pa zone but I'm not 100% sure. A family member might be € free.

I'm not making a recommendation bcz I don't know all your circumstances, and your private vs commercial use is important yet unclear on this thread.
 
julians said:
yes , I noticed that over the last 2 years. Anyone know why the polish flag is suddenly popular?
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Because it's cheap and easy to do, compared with registering in Spain. When you see other boats flying the Polish flag it gives you confidence that the Guardia Civil aren't going to impound your boat if you get Polish flagged yourself.
 
Grubble said:
Because it's cheap and easy to do, compared with registering in Spain. When you see other boats flying the Polish flag it gives you confidence that the Guardia Civil aren't going to impound your boat if you get Polish flagged yourself.
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Yes, cheap and easy to do is maybe the reason, but has it only changed recently to become cheap and easy?

ie what has changed in the last couple of years to make people go for the Polish flag? Because up until very recently you didn't see any Polish flags around majorca and now they seem tobe everywhere.
 
Do I need any inspections for my 15+ meter recreational yacht with Polish registration? YES, You need 2 technical inspections every 5 years.

Otherwise - no inspection. This could be the reason Polish flag is so popular, less than 15 mt and no one is going to complain a thru-hull does not look right.
 
Skipper Felice said:
May I give you some update of the "Schweizer Hochseeschein" = "Swiss Certificate of Competence for Ocean Yachting"
View attachment 186237

see: Kurse - Bootschule Zürichsee, Obersee Ihre Bootsschule
It's not available with some money and some nice examiner in half a day ... ... :)
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Well, it is in other states. The ICC is a UN sponsored scheme that is different from individual state qualifications although you can get an ICC from your government on the basis of your Swiss qualification. No different from the UK where RYA qualifications entitle you to an ICC. But they are not the same thing and evidence of competence required to hold an ICC can be demonstrated in the way I describe.
 
jfm said:
Red ensign state means a state whose boats fly a RE. Legalistically that's UK, the "Crown Dependencies" and the "UK Overseas Territories". UK, Jersey, Guernsey, IoM, Gib, Cayman, BVI, St Helena, Bermuda and a few other countries that you're unlikely to choose.
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Thank you - I got now some good understanding of the way to select a flag.

As you have seen in upper posts, a lot of people are under Polish flags ... cheap, easy, fast ... no soul. I have given you some examples of ppl under PL flag running "private charter" biz (post Newbee question: What is "boat / vessel coding" )
I do not speak and understand Polish - my soul goes to Italian ...
 
jfm said:
Third party agent costs I guess will be in the €4k pa zone but I'm not 100% sure. A family member might be € free.
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I registered in Jersey some years ago. The process couldn't be more straightforward and the registry staff are super helpful. They will give you a list of potential representatives - expect to pay no more than a couple of hundred pounds.
 
Irish Rover said:
I registered in Jersey some years ago. The process couldn't be more straightforward and the registry staff are super helpful. They will give you a list of potential representatives - expect to pay no more than a couple of hundred pounds.
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That's a consequence of your citizenship. SkipFelice is (afaik and I'm happy to be corrected) a CH citizen with no other citizenships, and therefore he will as I said incur a few thousand pounds a year not a few hundred to get his boat on a red ensign register.
 
We still need to talk about VAT / EU and UK (no EU)

Scenario 1
If I buy a boat in Italy, France or Spain, EU VAT is paid and accounted for. The boat remains in the EU, e.g. Italy and is therefore EU goods. No problem with customs and tax authorities. The boat is registered with EU flag (e.g. Poland, France, Italy or San Marino ...) Everything is ok and legal.

Scenario 2
If I buy a boat in Italy, France or Spain, EU VAT is paid and shown. The boat remains in the EU, e.g. Italy, and is therefore an EU product.
Now I make a registration in e.g. Jersey / Red ensign state. This would mean that the boat is exported from the EU and becomes GB goods. I then have to re-do the customs status and possibly pay GB VAT? Is this a problem with customs and tax authorities?

Do I make some mistake with VAT and EU flag or Red ensign state?
 
jfm said:
That's a consequence of your citizenship. SkipFelice is (afaik and I'm happy to be corrected) a CH citizen with no other citizenships, and therefore he will as I said incur a few thousand pounds a year not a few hundred to get his boat on a red ensign register.
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Yes - I am just Swiss - NO other or second citizenship ... But thats very ok ...! And therefore it makes little sense for me as a Swiss with an EU taxed boat to have an RE flag. Well folks - I can't join the friendly RE community.
 
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