Same old, same old

[LymingtonPugwash]

I know that many of the old hands will probably think "same old moan", but I do think that it is important to consider in the hope that it will make some think more about the importance of the subject..... which is boat competance...... before our nanny state forces us to consider it more seriously through legistlation.
I am convinced that as we see more and more boats on the water through boats being made easy to access for everyone (a good thing) we are unfortunately seeing the problems of lack of competance becoming more visible (a bad thing).... Having just endured the frustration of another bank holiday seeing dozens of total incompetants trying to tie up to and leave Lymington Town Quay and listened to the growing incidence of channel 16 calls to the coastguard for non urgent matters where the boat owners are panicking over matters they should be able to handle themselves and the coastguard being compelled to tie up a lifeboat with non urgent matters, I am actually asking myself if it might be a good thing to enforce boat competancy through legistlation!!?
As I live directly on the water's edge with my balconies looking directly down onto the Town Quay pontoon, I see just about every boat coming alongside or leaving the visitor's pontoons and trots..... and I would estimate that easily 75% of the boats which tie up and leave have little idea of what they are supposed to be doing and that 75% of the worse offenders are motor cruisers! If the potential for so much harm and damage where not so great, it would qualify as some of the best entertainment ever, putting Laurel and Hardy way down the list of entertainment.
Should there be some sort of limited, or extensive legistlation? Perhaps only for motor boats / cruisers?
What think ye all? Are you worried and offended by the lack of basic boat competance? Have you and your boats suffered as a consequence of this problem?

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[Guest]

For some time I have thought

The motorcycle industry had to act with traning schemes etc. when a person bought a motorcycle .... provisional licence and all that. It went through my mind whether a similar scheme could be thought of for boat buyers - buy a new boat from a dealer - get a short course on what a boat is ....

OK this does not cover the already on water brigade ... but if there are enough people on courses - possibly the elementary type of course as above may be cheap and interesting enough for all boaters who want something basic etc.

I think Clubs and Marina's should be encouraged to promote training schemes keeping it basically non-legislated. Too many times legislation tends to lose the initial reason and replace it with a beaurocrats idea of what is needed. I'm sorry to also say that I don't think the RYA would prove vastly better at it .... so it comes down to who could decide what is really needed ??

Its a difficult one - as there are the likes of me - that really do not want to go on a course to satisfy some piece of paper, but there are those out there that are a menace .... and some of these have some really nice boats !

Funny thinking about that - how often do you see a 'traditional' boat or an older one with an example of the posters idiot ? No so often as the ones you see on new boats .... funny that ......


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Posts personal opinions and maybe controversial

 

[webcraft]

RYA and legislation

I have flown microlights on and off for about twenty years, during which time they have been subject to various laws and licensing as ordained by the CAA, the same authority that oversees 747s and airline captains.

In the early days of the sport there was no legislation, and a lot of accidents. Everyone was very unhappy when legislation came in, but its introduction was handled in a sensitive way in very close co-operation with the BMAA - the 'governing body' of the sport, which was at that time in a position roughly analagous to that of the RYA today.

Without a body to guide the introduction of legislation we will end up administered and legislated for by people who know nothing about yachting. I would certainly rather see training / certification schemes run by the RYA becoming compulsory if the alternative is waiting for a spate of media dramatised accidents to force the introduction of hasty and ill-conceived new legislation cobbled together by a committee of nautical ignoramouses.

Why yachties are so against it when most of them are competent anyway is a bit mysterious . . . legislation wouldn't be aimed at them, it would be aimed at nautical numpties, most of whom are owners of power driven vessels of one sort or another. If all that was required to get rid of the menaces was the willingness to take a two hour one-off test then maybe it would be worth it - and if the RYA aren't going to supervise this then who is?

- Nick

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[Guest]

Re: RYA and legislation

Agree that at moment there isn;t reall a body suitable to administer or decide what is needed.

The RYA are a good body, but its my opinion that possibly they might not gothe right path .....

There are reasons for my opinion based on various things such as RCD etc. I know that they are not responsible for a lot, but as reps of the sport a few things have got through the net that should have been sorted.

Legislation will always lead to some unhappiness ..... inevitable - maybe thats why boaters in UK resent the thought of it.

I don't really fancy the thought of an examination but as said before - it wouldn't do me any harm - likely sort me out on a few things !


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[Mike21]

Re: RYA and legislation

You think 2 hrs would be enough to get someone competent?
It's very easy when you first get a boat, if someones there telling you what to do. to get it right, different when you then have do do it on your own, especially if the conditions aren't the same as when you were taught. Takes time for people to build up experience.
As for most yachties being competent........ LOL /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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[Guest]

Anything is better than nothing ...

No-one even hints that a couple of hours is substitute for the real thing .... g_d forbid.
But a course of some description instead of just handing the keys over is better than nothing.

I don't think you will get all to volunteer to take a short course - so how to do it ? The Motorcycle people said the same .... but it might just have saved lives ?


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[Mike21]

Re: Training

Seems like yachties in general don't seem to relish the thought of doing any training and an examination.
Don't know whether this is because they feel it would be a waste of time, or are worried they might fail.
It would be interesting to know of those that have done an RYA courses whether they felt it was useful or a waste of time.
Personally I think they're worth doing even if you don't bother with the exam.

Would agree that some training should be given before handing over keys to a new boater.

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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mike21 on 30/08/2004 15:54 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[powerskipper]

Re: For some time I have thought

I do know that many of the manufacturers are trying/ would like to incorporate into there new boat hand overs, a 2 or 4 day handover, involving getting to know your boat, all its systems and quite a bit of handling, but this would be on new boats , ifr they would also do with the second hand boats, they take as trade in I do not know.

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Julie

 

[A_7]

That wasn't you was it in your flat having a very noisy party a while ago keeping the whole Town Quay awake into the early hours? I seem to remember that Jimi Hendrix was the favourite artiste. If so it was far more anti-social than not being able to tie up a boat to your exacting standards.

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[pessimist]

Oh dear here we go again. Nanna knows best. This is not a reply to one thread but to the entire post.

I have held a motorcycle licence for 35 years, it doesn't make me a better rider.

I have held a driving licence for almost as long, it doesn't make be a better driver.

I hold a hang gliding licence - I crashed and don't fly any more.

I have sailed for around 35 years (all kinds of boats) I have never called the lifeboat, I make my own decisions , I don't want to be interfered with by Nanna (can I say that in todays PC society?) Legislation is the answer to nothing.

I'll duck now as the flames roar in.


<hr width=100% size=1>A pessimist is an optimist in full possession of the facts<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by pessimist on 30/08/2004 18:14 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[LymingtonPugwash]

Unfortunatly, though it sounds like it was a great party, it was not me! I wasn't even invited, so glad that I never even heard it! As for Jimi Hendrix? Forget it.... as you say, he is far more antisocial than any bad sailing!

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[Peppermint]

Re: Well

that sounds OK.

I'm a YM with commercial experience and 10's of thousands of, mainly coastal, miles logged. I've been sailing about 35 years. For 34 years I'd never put a mark on a boat but in the last year I've had a couple of incidents resulting in a bit of "fender bending". In fact I'd never had a moments trouble before I was qualified.

As to lifeboat call out's well I've not had one of those, though I do know quite a lot of very able sailors who have. It's easy to see calling the lifeboat out as a sin but the lifeboat men I know quite like to be called out. They particularly like to be called out before a situation gets worse. All experience seafarers know how a simple problem can grow into a life threatening situation very quickly.

I do applaud self reliance but society doesn't actually reward it that much. So no surprise that it's on the wain.

You are going to get the licensing that you seek. I predict that most harbours will be looking to register resident boats, there will be a charge of course, within 5 years. I further predict that within 10 years yachts will be required to be fitted with AIS transponders. None of this will be to stop the bumping and booring outside your window or to keep the RNLI in port. The word safety might be used as a reason but port security will be the driver.



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[pragmatist]

Nice balcony but what about the boat ? No details on your profile. Do you just sit and watch 'em *ock it up or do you particpate in the carnage ?

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

 

[pessimist]

Re: Well

I do applaud self reliance but society doesn't actually reward it that much. So no surprise that it's on the wain.

Wots self reliance got to do with hay?

<hr width=100% size=1>A pessimist is an optimist in full possession of the facts

 

[Col]

Same old same old indeed!!
By your reckoning, out of every 100 boats visiting - 56 mobo's & 18 raggies are going to cock up, and yet you only advocate .............
*some sort of limited, or extensive legistlation? Perhaps only for motor boats / cruisers*..................
By your reasoning, that lets 19 out of 100 incompetants still out on the water 19%??
Sorry........Doesn't stack up I'm afraid.

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[copterdoctor]

Re: Training

I've done the vast majority of RYA courses (Including Inst & Exam) Time on the water is never waisted and practical courses have been of value. It's up to you to go out and use the skills you learn until competent then move on to the next level (sorry fast trackers). I have yet to do an RYA one day course that was worth the paper the certificate came on.
I would hate to see compolsery licencing, we are an island nation after all but it is up to those on the water to use their skills to the limit to learn and not get into trouble.

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Same old one eyed rubbish

This is codswallop because the vast majority of boats that moor on Town Quay are yachts and generally speaking mobos are better at mooring anyway not least because, as you lot never tire of banging on about it, mobos tend to have twin engines
Get some glasses and a life

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[BrendanS]

Re: Same old one eyed rubbish

Guys, stop rising to the bait. My boat is kept about 30' away from Town Quay, so I see most of what happens on a regular basis.

Most get on and off OK, with the odd mishap that anyone can justify in extremely tight quarters when it's busy, and rafted out 4 or 5 deep, with only a narrow channel between there and Haven Quay, going up to the moorings further up above the bridge and the fishing boat moorings and the visitor moorings. Space is at a premium on such occassions, and not helped by people trying to row ashore, and taking no account of quite large boats trying to come alongside rafts in some odd winds and currents, and no space to use the usual techniques of ferry gliding or whatever.

Sometimes the boat you are trying to come alongside is blindsided by a far bigger boat outside and downstream, in which case, the normal and most obvious technique is to come in slowly bow first and throw ropes to the accomodating crew of the boat you want to come alongside......and it usually works!


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[webcraft]

Re: RYA and legislation

2 hours is for the assessment, not the training . . . I would also advocate a minimum experience prior to assessment. The RYA already have minimum experience for various practical assessments set out in the cruising training scheme, so I don't see the problem.

Maybe I'm being a bit naive when I say most yachties are competent. They are up here on the W. coast of Scotland , because if they weren't they would soon sink. Perhaps in the Solent you can be an idiot and get away with it.

Maybe this could be a devolved power and we wouldn't be involved . . .

- Nick




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[Mike21]

Re: RYA and legislation

Point taken on W coast of Scotland, spent a week on the firth of Clyde on a sailing boat doing a DS, must admit didn't see any of the antics normally seen down south/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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