Salvage rights

[Poignard]

A yacht broke away from its mooring, bounced off anchored yachts. I saw the chaos, jumped in the dink, fendered it off another accident and got aboard. Couldn’t get inside, couldn’t drop the anchor, couldn’t start the donk. I found the kedge, chucked it overboard just in time before it smashed itself on the rocky shore. The anchor held and I called the boat’s sales agent to ask him what to do with the boat ( the boat had a for sale sign on it with the agent’s number). He said to take it to a marina. I got the help of a passing superyacht tender to do just that. Tied it up after two hours to a buoy and went home to nurse my sore back and wash off the sweat and salt. I told the broker the boat was where he wanted it.

So, I’m expecting a phone call to say thanks a million and here’s a bottle of malt whisky for your trouble and a kiss and cuddle or whatever. What happens? Nothing at all. Total frikkin ingratitude 2 days later. I’m not happy.

So next time, if I don’t get courtesy it’s a salvage claim. How do I do it? Can I do it for this ungrateful sod?

Do know if the owner of the boat is even aware of what you did?

Might it be possible that the owner, having instructed the brokers to sell it, left it in their care and it was their negligence that caused it to break adrift, not his?

In case what I have suggested is true, might it not be a good idea to find the owner and tell him what happened?

He might be very grateful and thank you for what you did: and deliver a well-deserved bollocking to the agent.

You may yet get your desired kiss and cuddle.

(Just hope the owner is not some gigantic hairy Norwegian with halitosis)

 

[Birdseye]

A yacht broke away from its mooring, bounced off anchored yachts. I saw the chaos, jumped in the dink, fendered it off another accident and got aboard. Couldn’t get inside, couldn’t drop the anchor, couldn’t start the donk. I found the kedge, chucked it overboard just in time before it smashed itself on the rocky shore. The anchor held and I called the boat’s sales agent to ask him what to do with the boat ( the boat had a for sale sign on it with the agent’s number). He said to take it to a marina. I got the help of a passing superyacht tender to do just that. Tied it up after two hours to a buoy and went home to nurse my sore back and wash off the sweat and salt. I told the broker the boat was where he wanted it.

So, I’m expecting a phone call to say thanks a million and here’s a bottle of malt whisky for your trouble and a kiss and cuddle or whatever. What happens? Nothing at all. Total frikkin ingratitude 2 days later. I’m not happy.

So next time, if I don’t get courtesy it’s a salvage claim. How do I do it? Can I do it for this ungrateful sod?

Well done on rescuing the boat, but for myself, and having done just what you did, I would not expect anything in return and there is absolutely no way that I would try the salvage claim.

 

[Poignard]

Well done on rescuing the boat, but for myself, and having done just what you did, I would not expect anything in return and there is absolutely no way that I would try the salvage claim.

As would most yachtsmen. It wouldn't even enter our heads.
Something needs to be done and we try our best to do it.
Well said, our kid!

 

[Dutch01527]

People are sometimes embarrassed by their mistakes. My father and I were once walking up Snowden in early October. The weather started of perfectly but half way up turned with a vengeance. Howling wind, horizontal rain and almost no visibility which was not forecast.

We were well equipped and my Dad knew the route very well. We turned back were inching our way down when we heard crying and screaming. We found a family of 4 wearing t shirts and shorts who were lost, disoriented and panicking.

We gave them our waterproofs and fleeces and escorted them down. On arriving at the car park the father became very abrupt and borderline aggressive. Bundled the family up and disappeared off as soon as he could.

I think that he was embarrassed by his mistakes and his ego could not accept that he had messed up. Maybe the guy who did not secure his boat is similar.

 

[dgadee]

People are sometimes embarrassed by their mistakes. My father and I were once walking up Snowden in early October. The weather started of perfectly but half way up turned with a vengeance. Howling wind, horizontal rain and almost no visibility which was not forecast.

We were well equipped and my Dad knew the route very well. We turned back were inching our way down when we heard crying and screaming. We found a family of 4 wearing t shirts and shorts who were lost, disoriented and panicking.

We gave them our waterproofs and fleeces and escorted them down. On arriving at the car park the father became very abrupt and borderline aggressive. Bundled the family up and disappeared off as soon as he could.

I think that he was embarrassed by his mistakes and his ego could not accept that he had messed up. Maybe the guy who did not secure his boat is similar.

So true. But all these tow stories with bare thanks are surely different?

 

[Dutch01527]

So true. But all these tow stories with bare thanks are surely different?

Possibly the same physiology as displayed in my mountain story driving the the boat owner in the original post. A boat breaking free of moorings is often the result of poor seamanship. The owner may not have the emotional maturity to face up to that.

 

[Zing]

Do know if the owner of the boat is even aware of what you did?

Might it be possible that the owner, having instructed the brokers to sell it, left it in their care and it was their negligence that caused it to break adrift, not his?

In case what I have suggested is true, might it not be a good idea to find the owner and tell him what happened?

He might be very grateful and thank you for what you did: and deliver a well-deserved bollocking to the agent.

You may yet get your desired kiss and cuddle.

(Just hope the owner is not some gigantic hairy Norwegian with halitosis)

It’s close to what happened. I’ve done a bit of research. There is some kind of obfuscation going on in respect of the broken mooring. Finger pointing and blame and payment denials for my neighbour’s damaged boat by the owner and the agent. I don’t think a fear of liability for the broken mooring is an issue as that can’t be denied. I hauled up the line and placed it and the broken shackle where the owner would see it. I suspect a fear of a salvage claim from me and the liability ultimately being thrust on the mooring owner, who it turns out is the agent, has caused the owner to be misinformed. He was told the superyacht crew in the tow boat rescued the boat. They didn’t. They transported it from the place it was anchored to another mooring.

Not that I am going to file a claim, but by not playing straight a claim was made more likely, not less likely.

 

[Poignard]

It’s close to what happened. I’ve done a bit of research. There is some kind of obfuscation going on in respect of the broken mooring. Finger pointing and blame and payment denials for my neighbour’s damaged boat by the owner and the agent. I don’t think a fear of liability for the broken mooring is an issue as that can’t be denied. I hauled up the line and placed it and the broken shackle where the owner would see it. I suspect a fear of a salvage claim from me and the liability ultimately being thrust on the mooring owner, who it turns out is the agent, has caused the owner to be misinformed. He was told the superyacht crew in the tow boat rescued the boat. They didn’t. They transported it from the place it was anchored to another mooring.

Not that I am going to file a claim, but by not playing straight a claim was made more likely, not less likely.

How do you know that the superyacht's crew won't claim salvage? It would surely be annoying for you if you found out they had got a payout and you got nothing.

 

[Poignard]

There was a thread years ago about a forumite heroically rescuing a boat that had broken its mooring in Southampton Water. He was serious about claiming salvage.

IIRC we were told by one of the forum lawyers that a boat breaking loose from a mooring does not form the basis for a salvage claim.

The RYA guidance suggests that might form the basis of a salvage claim:

"Salvage without prior agreement
If you find yourself subject to a salvage claim without prioragreement; for example if your boat has been salvaged without your knowledge after it has broken free of its moorings or any such circumstances where salvage is unavoidable, most insurance policies require immediate written notice of any accident or of any claim. No negotiations, payments, settlements, admissions or terminations of any claim should be made without the written consent of the insurers.

If a salvage claim arises after your boat has been saved, notify youri nsurers straight away and leave the negotiations to them"

towage-and-salvage

 

[Zing]

How do you know that the superyacht's crew won't claim salvage? It would surely be annoying for you if you found out they had got a payout and you got nothing.

Because the boat had already been saved and anchored safely. You can only claim salvage on a boat in imminent jeopardy.

 

[Poignard]

Because the boat had already been saved and anchored safely. You can only claim salvage on a boat in imminent jeopardy.

How could you have lodged a claim before salving the yacht when there was nobody on board to negotiate the salvage terms with?

By your own account the yacht would have ended up on the rocks and the resulting damage might have cost the owner's insurers a lot of money. The basis of salvage claims is that the salvor's action to minimise damage or prevent total loss saves the owner or his insurers money and for that he is entitled to be rewarded.

 

[Poecheng]

How could you have lodged a claim before salving the yacht when there was nobody on board to negotiate the salvage terms with?

By your own account the yacht would have ended up on the rocks and the resulting damage might have cost the owner's insurers a lot of money. The basis of salvage claims is that the salvor's action to minimise damage or prevent total loss saves the owner or his insurers money and for that he is entitled to be rewarded.

I think Z was saying that the superyacht crew could not claim salvage - their involvement occurred only after the yacht was no longer in 'real danger' . One of the conditions for claiming salvage was not therefore met, namely the subject of salvage is in real danger.

 

[Poignard]

I think Z was saying that the superyacht crew could not claim salvage - their involvement occurred only after the yacht was no longer in 'real danger' . One of the conditions for claiming salvage was not therefore met, namely the subject of salvage is in real danger.

That's a good point, but there again he did say "just in time before it smashed itself on the rocky shore." so it must have been a lee shore and he had only been able to anchor it with a kedge, so the superyacht's boat crew could argue that it was not out of danger, and Zing admits he sought their help to get it to a safer place.

As I understand it, if someone attempts to salvage a vessel, and can't manage it with his own resources, anyone who helps him is justified in wanting a share of the spoils.

But, good chap that he is, he isn't going to make a claim so we'll never know!

Anyway, I hope he gets his well-deserved bottle of malt, and a kiss and a cuddle.

 

[Kukri]

There was a thread years ago about a forumite heroically rescuing a boat that had broken its mooring in Southampton Water. He was serious about claiming salvage.

IIRC we were told by one of the forum lawyers that a boat breaking loose from a mooring does not form the basis for a salvage claim.

Not I.

And I bet I am the only person here who has really earned their living as a salvage lawyer.

 

[Kukri]

I could tell a very naughty story about a Lloyd’s Form salvage claim being brought in respect of a Broads power cruiser on Breton Water (shades of Arthur Ransome’s “Coot Club”, but this really happened). It turned out that the claimant was - well, I name no names, but “wet” shipping law is a pretty small field, and he was a managing clerk at Ince & Co. He was politely spoken to and withdrew it.