Sale of boat in Greece - how to handle € cash?

[dunedin]

With current money laundering regulations, cash is a pain in the arse. Get him to "launder" it himself and do a bank transfer to you. If not, you may find yourself in an awkward situation later.

Yes, if according to posts #17 & #18 cash transactions of that size are illegal in Greece, the OP could be breaking the law if accepts the payment, as much as the buyer for offering it. Got a good Greek criminal lawyer for your defence?

(It is hard to think of any legitimate reason why more than €50 or so of cash would be used these days in any Western country)

 

[Graham376]

(It is hard to think of any legitimate reason why more than €50 or so of cash would be used these days in any Western country)

Thankfully, the black economy still thrives but it's much harder to bank the proceeds these days. Any unusualy large account transaction whether cash or cheques is likely to attract questions.

 

[Davy_S]

(It is hard to think of any legitimate reason why more than €50 or so of cash would be used these days in any Western country)

I am sorry but that is simply not true, i pay in cash wherever i go, if we have a meal that costs more than that, i will pay in cash, we have Greek accommodation for holidays that we pay in cash, are you seriously saying that i should pay in plastic and pay more? i don't think so, each to their own, i know what i do! It really is no consequence to me who fiddles the tax, my wallet is what matters, as to the 500 limit in cash, that is a joke, i know how they get around that, having lived in Greece for over 10 years
After saying that, i do agree with what Tony Cross says, be careful, very careful, they are masters at the art of tax evasion!

 

[sailaboutvic]

I am sorry but that is simply not true, i pay in cash wherever i go, if we have a meal that costs more than that, i will pay in cash, we have Greek accommodation for holidays that we pay in cash, are you seriously saying that i should pay in plastic and pay more? i don't think so, each to their own, i know what i do! It really is no consequence to me who fiddles the tax, my wallet is what matters, as to the 500 limit in cash, that is a joke, i know how they get around that, having lived in Greece for over 10 years
After saying that, i do agree with what Tony Cross says, be careful, very careful, they are masters at the art of tax evasion!

I just laugh when I read this stuff , I can only think this site must have the most law biding people on this earth ,
I sure if I had my boat up for sale and someone said he would only pay half by bank draft and the half by cash take it of leave it I know what I do .
As long as the OP has prove how he got the money there no case and as the guy going to pay some by bank drath or what ever he going to have the guy details .
Any way as I keep saying we have no idea the amount we talking about , it could be 5K not everyone got 60/100K boat .
And just to answer the OP question , yes I have on my last boat three years go ,
the cash when in my account after a chat with the bank manage who only interest was why I was banking sure a large amount . Not heard anything since , and I have a very good relationship with the buyer to this very day .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Yes, if according to posts #17 & #18 cash transactions of that size are illegal in Greece, the OP could be breaking the law if accepts the payment, as much as the buyer for offering it. Got a good Greek criminal lawyer for your defence?

(It is hard to think of any legitimate reason why more than €50 or so of cash would be used these days in any Western country)

I almost buy everything in cash , I just paid out £500 for a course computer in cash .
Last year in Greece we brought new sails , in cash and a new set of batteries bank in cash , I love cash .
In a few months I will be hauled out and all that will be done in cash .
I will go to a cash machine and withdraw cash , I not met anyone yet that when I said about paying in cash they said sorry no can do .
You can always do a deal when you pay in cash , and I love doing a deals.

 

[NotBirdseye]

I will go to a cash machine and withdraw cash , I not met anyone yet that when I said about paying in cash they said sorry no can do .

In the UK it's starting to be more, "Oh you're paying in cash, that'll be extra." or, "Paying by card? You get this much off your bill.". Personally I'd never pay by cash, too expensive.

Sure that's £15,000 to you, but to me that's £15,000 debt and £50 interest income to me, to pay back as and when I like. Minus the interest income, I get to keep that .

 

[sailaboutvic]

In the UK it's starting to be more, "Oh you're paying in cash, that'll be extra." or, "Paying by card? You get this much off your bill.". Personally I'd never pay by cash, too expensive.

Sure that's £15,000 to you, but to me that's £15,000 debt and £50 interest income to me, to pay back as and when I like. Minus the interest income, I get to keep that .

I not been back in the uk since last Dec , when I brought a new iPad , filled a car with fuel, and brought present for family , all in cash .

 

[Tony Cross]

As long as the OP has prove how he got the money there no case and as the guy going to pay some by bank drath or what ever he going to have the guy details

This is the problem. Any Greek bank into which the seller tries to deposit said large amount of cash will need a paper trail proving that he didn't get the cash from black market trading. He no doubt will point at the buyer who will deny all knowledge of it and point to the bank transfer as full and final payment for the boat. That will leave the seller most likely looking at a tax demand from the Greek authorities based on their default assumption that it's black market money. He will also probably have problems moving that money into the UK, the bank there will also want a paper trail showing where the money has come from.....

 

[Chris_Robb]

This is the problem. Any Greek bank into which the seller tries to deposit said large amount of cash will need a paper trail proving that he didn't get the cash from black market trading. He no doubt will point at the buyer who will deny all knowledge of it and point to the bank transfer as full and final payment for the boat. That will leave the seller most likely looking at a tax demand from the Greek authorities based on their default assumption that it's black market money. He will also probably have problems moving that money into the UK, the bank there will also want a paper trail showing where the money has come from.....

Bill of sale???? what amount on it. - Only half the amount (ie the bank transaction) and thats Fraud.

What has not been mentioned is the danger of bank transfers across boarders. It might arrive in your account, and your bank will say it is cleared, but it is not actually cleared for some time and the money can be called back - thats how some of the scams work when you get a good price for the sale of a car, and your bank says its cleared - but its not actually properly cleared. You loose your money. Fine if its a SEPA payment - thats a complete transaction in one go.... but they do it the old fashioned chaps way.

Lots of dogy 100 and specially 500 euro notes around. The 500s were especially for the italian money laundering market.

It sound dodgy - have you met the guys?

 

[ITH]

It sound dodgy - have you met the guys?

Thanks Chris; I haven't met him since the 'offer' was made to the yacht broker handling the sale. However judging by the responses made by the forum so far, I will be advising him against proceeding any further.

 

[Graham376]

Thanks Chris; I haven't met him since the 'offer' was made to the yacht broker handling the sale. However judging by the responses made by the forum so far, I will be advising him against proceeding any further.

Have you asked the broker if he can launder the money and give you payment by bank transfer? No doubt he would like his commission (on the full amount) in cash as well.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Bill of sale???? what amount on it. - Only half the amount (ie the bank transaction) and thats Fraud.

What has not been mentioned is the danger of bank transfers across boarders. It might arrive in your account, and your bank will say it is cleared, but it is not actually cleared for some time and the money can be called back - thats how some of the scams work when you get a good price for the sale of a car, and your bank says its cleared - but its not actually properly cleared. You loose your money. Fine if its a SEPA payment - thats a complete transaction in one go.... but they do it the old fashioned chaps way.

Lots of dogy 100 and specially 500 euro notes around. The 500s were especially for the italian money laundering market.

It sound dodgy - have you met the guys?

We not been told enough to make any judgment, it maybe the full amount is going to be put on the bill of sale , it maybe the amount of cash is so little it wouldn't be a problem ,
Anyone in his right mind wouldn't part with is goods until the money is in the bank and then confirmed by the back the money can't be withdrawn.
As don't even know if the cash will be in euros of pounds or where they will be handed over .
So many unknown how can any one give any advise .
In the right conditions , be happy to take partly cash as I said I had don't on the last boat I sold .
Not everyone keep all their cash in a bank for all sorts of reasons .
There was a day when cash was readily kept under the mattress
I see now the OP isnt going to continue with the sale ,
Hope he get another buyer soon .

 

[Tony Cross]

Have you asked the broker if he can launder the money and give you payment by bank transfer? No doubt he would like his commission (on the full amount) in cash as well.

That's a good idea. See whether the broker will take the cash, bank it themselves and do a bank transfer for it to your bank. That would leave the broker with the cash problems, and you'd be fine.

 

[sailaboutvic]

That's a good idea. See whether the broker will take the cash, bank it themselves and do a bank transfer for it to your bank. That would leave the broker with the cash problems, and you'd be fine.

Bit late now , the op been put off , I hope he has the kind of boat that will interest other buyers or he may just regret posting here .

If the broker thought it was that dodge would he really suggested if .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Have you asked the broker if he can launder the money and give you payment by bank transfer? No doubt he would like his commission (on the full amount) in cash as well.

No one suggestion the money has come from illegal substances. So why is there talk of launder money ,

 

[Graham376]

No one suggestion the money has come from illegal substances. So why is there talk of launder money ,

No-one has suggested the money has come from illegal substances but, the buyer in question wants an illegal cash deal. Converting cash from an illegal transaction into legal tender is laundering.

 

[Tony Cross]

Bit late now , the op been put off , I hope he has the kind of boat that will interest other buyers or he may just regret posting here .

If the broker thought it was that dodge would he really suggested if .

I think the broker is required to pass on all offers? In any case, the broker wouldn't care, if the seller agreed he'd be the one left holding cash that he couldn't properly account for, the broker would get his fee regardless.

What we don't know is how much cash is involved. If the 'large amount' that the OP talked about was less than €5k he might have been ok, but I suspect it's a lot more than that, in which case I'm glad if he's been put off because he'd have faced some awkward questions to which he might not have had acceptable answers trying to bank that much cash either in Greece or in the UK.

I hope he's glad he posted on here, he's been saved some potentially worrying problems.

BTW. I never said it was illegal, I said it sounds like a classic Greek tax avoidance scheme (for the buyer) that leaves the seller holding all the risk.

 

[sailaboutvic]

No-one has suggested the money has come from illegal substances but, the buyer in question wants an illegal cash deal. Converting cash from an illegal transaction into legal tender is laundering.

I only posred what you suggested Graham I not making any thing up , or did I miss read what you wrote ?
( Have you ask the broker if he can launder the money )
Also why is it illegal ? Who said the deal being done in Greece ? The cash maybe handed over in the UK all off £3.500

 

[sailaboutvic]

I think the broker is required to pass on all offers? In any case, the broker wouldn't care, if the seller agreed he'd be the one left holding cash that he couldn't properly account for, the broker would get his fee regardless.

What we don't know is how much cash is involved. If the 'large amount' that the OP talked about was less than €5k he might have been ok, but I suspect it's a lot more than that, in which case I'm glad if he's been put off because he'd have faced some awkward questions to which he might not have had acceptable answers trying to bank that much cash either in Greece or in the UK.

I hope he's glad he posted on here, he's been saved some potentially worrying problems.

BTW. I never said it was illegal, I said it sounds like a classic Greek tax avoidance scheme (for the buyer) that leaves the seller holding all the risk.

At last some one got my point , we know little about this , so how can people suggestion he shouldn't go ahead with the deal .
.
I brought a windlass three years ago for a charter company in Greece for €500 less then I could had got it any where else , yes for cash , I guess if I ask the question here if I should part with my money I would had been told NO . They are probably doing some thing illegal.

 

[Chris_Robb]

We have a sales enquiry for our boat (parked in Leros), which is offering part payment by bank transfer, and the remainder in € cash. Has anyone done a similar deal, and could offer advice - not about the security aspects of the deal but how to handle the money? We only have a UK bank account and don't know how we could handle it e,g, is it possible to open a € account in Greek bank, which would accept a large amount of € cash on deposit?
As someone said - there is little info on which to base any advice. However in re reading the original post (above) it seems that that they only had a sales enquiry. How does a sale process start with how you are going to pay........ he hasn't even seen the boat. This has all the hall marks of a scam though I am not sure how it will work. We all know how a chaps transfer can be called back EVEN though your bank has said it is paid - If it comes from Nigeria (or in recent time France and Italy) it could take 6 months before such a transfer was irrevocable! Your bank will show it as cleared funds - but that is most misleading....... Using SEPA (any bank in Europe) transfers safer and can only be called back for 14 days.

In any case I wish the OP good luck in selling his yacht - a process which can be incredibly slow and frustrating...... do not be sidelined with this time of thing.