Sale of boat in Greece - how to handle € cash?

[ITH]

We have a sales enquiry for our boat (parked in Leros), which is offering part payment by bank transfer, and the remainder in € cash. Has anyone done a similar deal, and could offer advice - not about the security aspects of the deal but how to handle the money? We only have a UK bank account and don't know how we could handle it e,g, is it possible to open a € account in Greek bank, which would accept a large amount of € cash on deposit?

 

[NotBirdseye]

They're both in Euros going to a Euro account? If not, then demand cash. Exchange rates are evil and you can likely find a much better exchange rate yourself. (Moneysavingexpert).

If they want to save themselves some money, they'll exchange to pounds to begin with. Legal tender is legal tender. If you want a transaction history, ask them to send you a nominal amount via bank transfer from a legit account (not western union). It's rare to handle so much cash at once but provided you have evidence of who you sold it to, if anyone comes knocking you can forward them on.

Edit: Does Greece even have free banking?

 

[25931]

Be very careful with cash - there are restrictions on how much you can carry in some countries.

 

[Bellacruiser]

If we assume this is pre-Brexit, then see these links on taking cash out of Greece and into the UK: https://transferwise.com/gb/blog/taking-cash-in-or-out-of-greece and https://www.gov.uk/bringing-cash-into-uk

So, in theory it can be done but you probably wouldn't want to be carrying it! I personally would work with the buyer to have this sent via a transfer service (e.g Transferwise) so that you electronically receive Sterling. You'll need to agree the rate/fees so you end up with what you are expecting to end up with!

It appears you could open an account in Greece https://transferwise.com/gb/blog/opening-a-bank-account-in-greece but the time and effort, and to then have to get the Euros sent as Sterling (unless you are likely to want to buy another boat in Euros/in Greece?) will be on you. You may find it costly to get the money sent to the UK later as a pure bank transfer, but services like Transferwise could perhaps help.

Additionally you rightly flag whether the account could receive large sums over the counter - it would certainly set alarm bells ringing if it were a UK bank, and likewise you might find yourself subjected to questioning or asked to provide details proving the source of the funds.

Is there some reason this is cash and can't be paid as a transfer like the rest?!

 

[sailaboutvic]

There people who have cash and for what ever reason want to lost it .
If the buyer is one of these it's unlikely he will agree to do any bank transfer .
We do know and see the cash of a cruiser who sold his boat for 185 k in cash in Sicily .
As far as I know he took on a local apartment for some month and slowly banked it in different banks .
Not a easy option .
What we talking about 15 k or 100 k ?

Should had said the guy was an EU ciz not British

 

[Yngmar]

Your UK bank account can receive SEPA payments, in EUR. If you do not have a EUR account, it will be converted to GBP at a pretty disadvantageous rate. Opening a EUR account with your existing bank is usually very easy. Talk to your bank about the details. Using Transferwise can save you a lot of money in transaction and currency conversion fees (the hostile exchange rates banks use by default are just hidden fees too). Payments above 10'000 € will be subject to money laundering checks, which can induce significant hassle and delays.

Cash is not unregulated either: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/alcohol-tobacco-cash/index_en.htm

If you want to travel between EU countries with EUR 10 000 euros or more in cash (or the equivalent in other currencies), you must check with the customs authorities in the countries you are leaving, entering and passing through whether you must declare it.

If you plan to enter or leave the EU with EUR 10 000 euros or more in cash (or the equivalent in other currencies) you must declare it to the customs authorities. Failure to do so could result in your cash being retained by the customs authorities, and you may receive a fine. Be aware that the customs authorities may carry out individual checks as well as checks on your baggage and/or vehicle.

Additionally you need to think about whether or not it is smarter to keep the money in EUR rather than convert to GBP at this time.

If you can get it legally, a EU bank account in EUR currency is a very useful thing.

 

[t21]

meh, I would tellem to get lost. They need to get the money into a bank account but they want you to do that bit...

 

[Bellacruiser]

meh, I would tellem to get lost. They need to get the money into a bank account but they want you to do that bit...

I'd agree. The problem isn't so much caused by receiving euros but by receiving cash

There are various risks:

1. Counterfeit notes (you only find out when you try to pay in/spend)
2. Money laundering/illicitly obtained funds (you might never know, but you don't want to be finding out if some law enforcement agency tries to freeze or recover funds)
3. Transporting the cash and associated security risk if you chose to physically bring it to the UK
4. Hassle/scrutiny to open Greek bank account and pay in in one lump sum (could kick off a lot of red tape and a heavy handed bank might freeze the account)
5. Buyer could be on the fiddle somehow; removing the electronic paper trail over funds might allow them to claim the purchase price was lower, to some tax benefit to them [we had a broker try to convince us to buy a boat at €xx on the bill of sale and pay cash for the rest, not mentioned, and then the VAT would be calculated only on the recorded amount. Nope! But a buyer could forge a bill of sale similarly and there be no evidence that more was paid]

Lastly, have you agreed a price in euro or sterling? You want to ensure you end up with the amount you expected to end up with!

 

[ITH]

They're both in Euros going to a Euro account? If not, then demand cash. Exchange rates are evil and you can likely find a much better exchange rate yourself. (Moneysavingexpert).

Thanks but we want to avoid the cash element

Be very careful with cash - there are restrictions on how much you can carry in some countries.

Understood, hence the enquiry

If we assume this is pre-Brexit, then see these links on taking cash out of Greece and into the UK: https://transferwise.com/gb/blog/taking-cash-in-or-out-of-greece and https://www.gov.uk/bringing-cash-into-uk

So, in theory it can be done but you probably wouldn't want to be carrying it! I personally would work with the buyer to have this sent via a transfer service (e.g Transferwise) so that you electronically receive Sterling. You'll need to agree the rate/fees so you end up with what you are expecting to end up with!

It appears you could open an account in Greece https://transferwise.com/gb/blog/opening-a-bank-account-in-greece but the time and effort, and to then have to get the Euros sent as Sterling (unless you are likely to want to buy another boat in Euros/in Greece?) will be on you. You may find it costly to get the money sent to the UK later as a pure bank transfer, but services like Transferwise could perhaps help.

Additionally you rightly flag whether the account could receive large sums over the counter - it would certainly set alarm bells ringing if it were a UK bank, and likewise you might find yourself subjected to questioning or asked to provide details proving the source of the funds.

Is there some reason this is cash and can't be paid as a transfer like the rest?!

Thanks; we do use 'Currency Fair' for other £ to € transfers, and I'll check what they might do - in reverse that is. I think the reason for part cash is the restrictions on the amounts that Greeks can send abroad.

There people who have cash and for what ever reason want to lost it .
If the buyer is one of these it's unlikely he will agree to do any bank transfer .
We do know and see the cash of a cruiser who sold his boat for 185 k in cash in Sicily .
As far as I know he took on a local apartment for some month and slowly banked it in different banks .
Not a easy option .
What we talking about 15 k or 100 k ?

Should had said the guy was an EU ciz not British

Amount is €20,000 Vic, and I wouldn't fancy months squirellng cash into accounts.

Your UK bank account can receive SEPA payments, in EUR. If you do not have a EUR account, it will be converted to GBP at a pretty disadvantageous rate. Opening a EUR account with your existing bank is usually very easy. Talk to your bank about the details. Using Transferwise can save you a lot of money in transaction and currency conversion fees (the hostile exchange rates banks use by default are just hidden fees too). Payments above 10'000 € will be subject to money laundering checks, which can induce significant hassle and delays.

Cash is not unregulated either: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/carry/alcohol-tobacco-cash/index_en.htm



Additionally you need to think about whether or not it is smarter to keep the money in EUR rather than convert to GBP at this time.

If you can get it legally, a EU bank account in EUR currency is a very useful thing.

Good points, thanks. We're with Santander in the UK so I'll check the situation with them - if they have Greek connections. And as you say, we would certainly want to keep the transaction in €, given the state of the £ at least for the short term.

I'd agree. The problem isn't so much caused by receiving euros but by receiving cash

Lastly, have you agreed a price in euro or sterling? You want to ensure you end up with the amount you expected to end up with!

Agree that there could be risks with € cash, but nothing of substance - if we can utilise a Greek Bank connection. No agreement on price yet, but given exchange rates we'll stick to Euros!

 

[dunedin]

You will get pretty poor exchange rates from your bank converting Eur to Gbp for a standard SEPA international transfer. And even worse for cash.
For bigger sums using specialist currency exchange companies can get you much better rates. But I suspect they will only deal with electronic money, not cash. And for them 20k is not a big sum - even though it is for us.

Not sure that Yngmar is right that it is easy to open a Euro account with your U.K. bank. 10 years ago it was, but most high street banks stopped doing currency accounts for general punters, in part due to lack of profitability and in part due to increased money laundering & know your customer regulations. Some may still offer this, but most now are aimed at High Net Worth with minimum deposit levels and/or monthly fees, to deter the casual punter.

Some new online options like Revolut are worth a look, as a simple and free way to keep money in foreign currency, and exchange at good rates, but again don’t believe they handle cash.

 

[Bellacruiser]

You will get pretty poor exchange rates from your bank converting Eur to Gbp for a standard SEPA international transfer. And even worse for cash.
For bigger sums using specialist currency exchange companies can get you much better rates. But I suspect they will only deal with electronic money, not cash. And for them 20k is not a big sum - even though it is for us.

Not sure that Yngmar is right that it is easy to open a Euro account with your U.K. bank. 10 years ago it was, but most high street banks stopped doing currency accounts for general punters, in part due to lack of profitability and in part due to increased money laundering & know your customer regulations. Some may still offer this, but most now are aimed at High Net Worth with minimum deposit levels and/or monthly fees, to deter the casual punter.

Some new online options like Revolut are worth a look, as a simple and free way to keep money in foreign currency, and exchange at good rates, but again don’t believe they handle cash.

You can fairly easily get Euro accounts (or services that effectively work like that) from Starling, Transferwise and, as you say, Revolut. But there’s no branch network or counterpart pay in a wedge of cash at

 

[AndrewB]

Bellacruiser has hit the nail on the head.

I don't know about Greek banks, but many banks do have rules about maximum cash transfers. My Belgian bank has a limit of €6,000 on a single cash deposit or €10,000 per annum for a personal account - beyond that they require proof of origin to satisfy money-laundering regulations. So you might have a problem with this amount of money to deposit.

 

[Stingo]

What about getting a yacht broker involved, but only for the financial part of the transaction ie at a very reduced commission? The buyer then hands the cash to the broker, the broker then deposits it into their bank account and then transfers what they owe you into your bank account and you'll then have the comfort of a traceable transaction.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I don't think a broker would be looking at taking in cash , although we have no idea what the sum is , it could be just a few thousand .

 

[Tony Cross]

We have a sales enquiry for our boat (parked in Leros), which is offering part payment by bank transfer, and the remainder in € cash. Has anyone done a similar deal, and could offer advice - not about the security aspects of the deal but how to handle the money? We only have a UK bank account and don't know how we could handle it e,g, is it possible to open a € account in Greek bank, which would accept a large amount of € cash on deposit?

I would be extremely suspicious. If the buyer is Greek this will be a deliberate attempt to avoid tax, he'll declare only the value he paid by bank transfer. If it were me I would say no. All via bank transfer or not at all.

 

[Sandyman]

I would be extremely suspicious. If the buyer is Greek this will be a deliberate attempt to avoid tax, he'll declare only the value he paid by bank transfer. If it were me I would say no. All via bank transfer or not at all.

Completely agree. You might take the cash, sign over your boat then 4 big blokes take the cash back........................................!

 

[Graham376]

I don't think a broker would be looking at taking in cash , although we have no idea what the sum is , it could be just a few thousand .

It appears it would be illegal for him to do so under Greek law -

From Reuters:

“From 1. Jan. 2011, every transaction above 1,500 euros between natural persons and businesses, or between businesses, will not be considered legal if it is done in cash. Transactions will have to be done through debit or credit cards”

 

[wwalsh]

it is less now. transactions over 500 eur are not permitted in Greece as cash. anyway most Greek brokers have businesses based in Cyprus or UK etc.

a few foreign people were recently having difficulty in opening a greek bank account. certainly to bank a cash amount 5000-10000 and certainly if more than 15000 would raise flags and require documents

It has been done in the past though (russian showed up with 30,000 cash to buy an ex-charter yacht) but the deposit was allowed into the charter company's business account. this was before the latest money laundering regulations.

it would be legal for two people to take total 20,000 cash out of the country in their bags. with obvious risks previously mentioned in this discussion

 

[Graham376]

it would be legal for two people to take total 20,000 cash out of the country in their bags. with obvious risks previously mentioned in this discussion

Legal yes but, if they operate the same as UK, the money would be seized until positive documented proof provided of where it had come from, such as bank withdrawal.

 

[colind3782]

With current money laundering regulations, cash is a pain in the arse. Get him to "launder" it himself and do a bank transfer to you. If not, you may find yourself in an awkward situation later.