sailing luddites

wotayottie

wotayottie

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Brought on by the long keel thread, it's always puzzled me why there are so many luddites in yachting.Car enthusiasts may like an old classic car but rarely in my experience do they believe the old car is better than the cars made today. Same thing applies in motorbikes, and indeed in every other hobby I can think of bar antique collection.

Yet a fair proportion of sailors seem to believe stongly that old long keel narrow gutted heavy old gaff rigged boats are way better than what is made these days. Single handed sailors whizz round the world in high tech tea trays yet many yotties believe that anything more modern than the mid 50s is unsafe new fangled rubbish. And yet most of them do no more than an occasional cross channel jaunt.

OK I'm exagerrating a bit but you get the idea. Why is it that sailing has so many luddites?
 
wotayottie said:
Brought on by the long keel thread, it's always puzzled me why there are so many luddites in yachting.Car enthusiasts may like an old classic car but rarely in my experience do they believe the old car is better than the cars made today. Same thing applies in motorbikes, and indeed in every other hobby I can think of bar antique collection.
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oh they do, especially with bikes
 
Croak said:
Same with cars, " don't get steel like that anymore" etc.
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And a bl**dy good job too. Remember the Morris Oxfords that rotted almost as you watched them?

And the old Brit bikes that were sold with a drip tray? I'll never forget ny Commando but not because it was any good.
 
A classic wooden boat, especially if it's varnished, is like a supermodel - great to look at but I wouldn't want to own one.
 
Faster performance is not necessarily the only criteria on which to base your choice. From a cruising perspective a gentler motion may be more desirable than extra speed.

Chris
 
The car analogy is a good one - very few of us would be able to cope with a formula 1 car in the same way that we wouldn't be able to handle an open 60 or open 70. Horses for courses as they say ! Not necessarily Luddite but maybe better suited to needs ?
 
I Dont Think So

wotayottie said:
.... Yet a fair proportion of sailors seem to believe stongly that old long keel narrow gutted heavy old gaff rigged boats are way better than what is made these days. ..... Why is it that sailing has so many luddites?
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First of all the bashing on here between the opponents is mostly just baiting for reaction due to some observation between different era boats. It's what forums are about, discussion.

Secondly, I doubt very much if the membership of these forums is representative of the leisure boating community. It may be but I doubt it.

Thirdly, narrow gutted, heavy, old gaff rigged boats are just a load of cods wallop as are ultra light weight, swing keel, ocean girdling racing yachts. That leaves something in the middle which is the broad brush of modern sailing that the majority of us subscribe to. ;)

Fourthly, old gaffers and ultra tech racing yachts are pretty amazing craft.
 
I might stop being a Luddite when I have seen a 100 year old grp yacht,
"If God had meant man to sail in GRP boats he would have given them fibreglass trees." :)
Cheers,
Chris
 
Not all wooden boats with old fashioned rigs are old. Yesterday afternoon (Saturday) I spent a few hours helping to man the RNLI Sea Safety stand at Tamar River SC Open Day - guest of honour was Pete Goss' Spirit of Mystery. Her rig might have been a bit of a mystery to a lot of skimming dish owners as she is a Cornish lugger which sailed to Oz last year to celebrate 100 years since some out of work tin miners went in a similar, and safe, small fishing boat.
 
You're right. I seen sense now. I've just realised that the work would not have taken me nearly so long if it hadn't been for all the passer-bys stopping me to say how, of all the boats, TG was the nicest. Hours I've been stopped. 'Course it doesn't happen to you gliberfast boat owners. Why won't they leave me alone........
 
I find it difficult to see why people get worked up about this stuff.
Long keel gaffers (IMO) look lovely. Having crewed on a 44ft pilot cutter I realise full well they need a bit more manpower than more modern designs. They don't sail to windward quite as well, but so what - they do sail great otherwise?
I quite fancy the idea of a wooden boat, BUT unless you know and can work with wood yourself -or have deep pockets- it is less doable for most people than GRP.
So I sail a (22 year old) GRP bermudan sloop?
I also have a 1954 500 Velocette - which I like a lot, but is not really suited to regular use - since considerations like oil drips and things vibrating loose are always at the back of your mind!
My great grandfather pesronally chose the 6 trees he used for the frames when he built his last wooden coaster. All the folowing boats were all steel. That was simply down to using the best material / price for construction at the time. If GRP had been available - and strong enough for the job I'm sure it would have been adopted promptly.
The understandable sentimentality around wooden hulls/ long keels is I think mostly a modern idea and was rarely a consideration when they were built.
Live & let live. I am quite sure some GRP hulls will last a very long time.

Graeme
 
Cornishman said:
Not all wooden boats with old fashioned rigs are old. Yesterday afternoon (Saturday) I spent a few hours helping to man the RNLI Sea Safety stand at Tamar River SC Open Day - guest of honour was Pete Goss' Spirit of Mystery. Her rig might have been a bit of a mystery to a lot of skimming dish owners as she is a Cornish lugger which sailed to Oz last year to celebrate 100 years since some out of work tin miners went in a similar, and safe, small fishing boat.
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Indeed you are right, and no one will disagree that a fine old wooden sailing yacht 50, 60 or a 100 years old is not a very capable thing of beauty, the days when a gentleman had a full time crew looking after his boat. However if that were the only way boats were built today, then it would put boat ownership beyond the means of about (say)90% of people, generally people could not afford the yard costs or the time for the maintenance required. Also to hand build a wooden boat would cost many time that of GRP.

For a comparison to cars, seems to be the thing to do, forget Land Rovers or Transits, how many people use a Morgan as day to day transport?
 
Just different keels for different applications. Hull material has changed with technology. I don't really think it is much more than that. And, does it really matter, if people wax lyrical about about older boats, doesn't hurt does it?

Now it's sunny outside - should I take my 1962 or 2006 Triumph for a ride?......
 
It has been observed that the people who are keen on old gaffers are also interested in more extreme modern designs. I went straight from a 1908 gaffer to a racing tri and these days along with sailing my unstayed-wingmast cat I do some time under square rig.

I've recently done a couple of passages on an AWB (strictly speaking an average cream boat) and I'll stick with the extremes thanks.
 
When people wax lyrical about wooden boats, they usually conveniently forget that lots of modern hull shapes either just cant be built (or certainly can't be built economically) using wood.

The trouble is that designers (with a free hand to design any shape they want) then design some boats in GRP that just don't sail very well.

I have sailed (and enjoyed sailing) long keeled wooden boats of various sorts, along with lots of GRP boats. There's no one best boat - they are all compromises.
 
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