Sailing around the world on a budget

[Sea Change]

Interesting. One of the instruments we have is a helm position indicator. It’s amazing how useful it is. We can be tramping along on a close reach with the autopilot on and the only clue that the autopilot is beginning to work hard is the rudder indicator starting to creep more and more off the centre. Weather helm (and excess weather helm) is there before your eyes. A quick trim of the sails or a reef taken in and the results are obvious.

Of course if you were hand steering you’d have felt the need to trim or reef, but the autopilot steers on ‘manfully’ (if allowed to say that) struggling to keep the course without complaining. On a wheel steered boat without a helm indicator, it’s possible to not notice what’s happening.

And before anyone asks we’ve got a Turks head on the wheel at ‘midships’ but there are three wheel positions where it is at 12 o’clock and only one of them is ‘midships’.

Yes we do have a rudder indicator, and that's a useful way to check how hard the autopilot is working. It just feels right to me to disengage and do a bit of manual steering every few hours. Like doing a walk round of the deck twice a day. Whatever helps us sleep through the off watch .

 

[Frank Holden]

I don't know why people are getting bent out of shape over the cost of butter - I'd be more concerned about the price of eggs and olive oil. Especially the latter.

 

[Frank Holden]

In Chile 'Colun' the butter I typically buy is currently on 'oferta' at about $Ch10,000 - about £8.40 - a kilo. Regular price is about $ch12,000. You can pay up to double that for Kerrygold if you so choose.
Supermercado | Jumbo.cl
In Ecuador I virtually lived on camarones as they were so cheap, $US10 a kilo . https://www.aki.com.ec/producto/camaron-premium-economico-pelado-y-desvenado-mediano-omarsa-1000-g/
That's about half what you pay in Australia https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/666563/just-caught-peeled-deveined-raw-prawns

 

[MisterBaxter]

Both systems do, pretending that vanes don’t is as big a folly as assuming electric ones do. I don’t think vanes are outdated either, I was surprised to hear Florence saying this but they’ve certainly demonstrated they are entitled to comment.
Either way, with current pricing I can buy around three electronic ones for the price of a hydrovane which is fascinating given the simplicity of the vane and the relatively cheap materials, many of which are essentially metal tubing. Perhaps the thing that ultimately kills them will be lack of orders. If they were selling thousands a year a vane ought to be about £1000 but I’d guess their profit these days comes from tens of units or low hundreds so the price reflects that niche.

I think Hydrovanes are about the most expensive windvane self-steering on the market, though. And for the auto-pilot to be viable for ocean sailing, you would need to price in the battery, electricity generation and charge management kit needed to ensure that the autopilot load could always be met - I think Florence had significant upgrades for all that before the owners decided to just use the autopilot.
I did have a look at Florence's website - interesting stuff and as you say, loads of experience behind it. But the OP was asking about budgets, and I wouldn't say that a boat which must have cost £50k+ with a refit that might have cost the same (don't beat me up if it didn't, I haven't gone through all their videos) could be said to be low budget cruising. There are still plenty of people having a good time in £20k thirty-footers with simple fit-outs.

 

[robmcg]

Personally, I would still class some kind of vane steering as essential for long distance sailing but appreciate that this is probably a minority position these days. I have used both the Hydrovane and Monitor windvanes. Personally, my preference was the Hydrovane which was simplicity personified. The Monitor is slightly more fickle and less tolerant of being out of trim with the sails.
You tend to see fewer vane gears on newer boats as the logistics of mounting them on the transom is difficult on modern sterned yachts. This is particularly true of servo pendulum vanes.
Arguably, a modern wide sterned yacht design is also not really going to get the best out of a windvane. Older designs of yacht with bigger fin or long keels tend to track a little better this minimising the input from the vane steering. Modern electronic autopilots have become much more reliable and can steer a very accurate course but most of us couldn't fix the innards if they went bang in the middle of nowhere. Most vane manufacturers offer an offshore spares kit which fixes most if not all of the potential failure points on a vane while underway.
We use both electronic autopilot and vane gear. Longer offshore passages it's mainly the Monitor. It's sometimes just nice to watch the windvane doing its thing with no human or electronic input.
As for falling into the budget category, try to buy a boat with a windvane already installed. Buying a new one from one of the main players is a significant outlay.

 

[Blueboatman]

Tillerpilots are noisy little things..

Under deck, linear electric or hydraulic ram type autopilots seem to fair a lot better on reliability and their users ears..

 

[lustyd]

But its not really a fair like for like surely? If an autopilot fails, it’s probably not fixable on board, whereas a wind vane probably is.

In the sailing brothers case the gears were worn so no, it wasn’t fixable on board and they had to wait for parts for quite a while. Most failure of electronic ones are due to dodgy/corroded wiring so certainly fixable if you have some cable and a crimper on board. I think it’s a perfectly reasonable comparison.

 

[lustyd]

I think Hydrovanes are about the most expensive windvane self-steering on the market

To be fair that’s the only one I’ve looked at so far. I certainly want one before crossing an ocean. Eventually I’ll start a thread asking for advice I’m sure. I think most of them won’t work on our boat but will investigate before committing.

 

[john_morris_uk]

To be fair that’s the only one I’ve looked at so far. I certainly want one before crossing an ocean. Eventually I’ll start a thread asking for advice I’m sure. I think most of them won’t work on our boat but will investigate before committing.

We picked up our Hydrovane brand new still in its boxes but second hand for just under £2k. (Aborted plans due to a family crisis). I appreciate we were lucky but they are out there if you’re patient. Try and get a recent one with the latest rudder and upgraded shaft.

Hydrovane sell all the parts so if anything is needed (different mount?) then it’s available.

I see one sold on EBay recently for £3750.

 

[benjenbav]

Personally, I would still class some kind of vane steering as essential for long distance sailing but appreciate that this is probably a minority position these days. I have used both the Hydrovane and Monitor windvanes. Personally, my preference was the Hydrovane which was simplicity personified. The Monitor is slightly more fickle and less tolerant of being out of trim with the sails.
You tend to see fewer vane gears on newer boats as the logistics of mounting them on the transom is difficult on modern sterned yachts. This is particularly true of servo pendulum vanes.
Arguably, a modern wide sterned yacht design is also not really going to get the best out of a windvane. Older designs of yacht with bigger fin or long keels tend to track a little better this minimising the input from the vane steering. Modern electronic autopilots have become much more reliable and can steer a very accurate course but most of us couldn't fix the innards if they went bang in the middle of nowhere. Most vane manufacturers offer an offshore spares kit which fixes most if not all of the potential failure points on a vane while underway.
We use both electronic autopilot and vane gear. Longer offshore passages it's mainly the Monitor. It's sometimes just nice to watch the windvane doing its thing with no human or electronic input.
As for falling into the budget category, try to buy a boat with a windvane already installed. Buying a new one from one of the main players is a significant outlay.

Would vane steering struggle on a boat that’s not designed to be capable of being hove to?

 

[veshengro]

I haven't got a clear photo to show, but I had a Simrad TP 2000, it's buried away somewhere but I think that was it's title. The arm on the Simrad Tiller Pilot connected to a short rod which fitted onto the small stub on the Hydrovane. Being single handed this set up was handy when close to land and lack of wind meant I had to use the engine. The TP worked just the Hydrovane rudder and steered the boat very well.
Ironically the TP failed after about a year of limited use. I managed to get the two sections, top and bottom apart and found that it worked on a kind of rack and pinion arrangement. The rack was stainless steel and the pinion plastic !! The pinion wheel had split and just revolved on the steel rack instead of the teeth meshing. I fixed it with a Metal Weld type gunk and fitted the top and bottom back together sealing it with mastic. Amazingly this bodge worked and I used the TP many times when motoring close to land. I was always single handed and readily admit the 'Auto Pilot' was a real boon at times.

 

[dansaskip]

Would vane steering struggle on a boat that’s not designed to be capable of being hove to?

Would you consider crossing an ocean on a boat that was not capable of being hove to? I certainly would not.

 

[newtothis]

Much talk about what I believe are quite expensive Hydrovanes, but it seems possible to DIY a windvane. On youtube, both Wave Rover and How to Sail Oceans have cobbled something together out of string and marine ply that appears to get them across the Atlantic.
Also no mention of sheet-to-tiller, which at a pinch seems to be able to keep a course should even the windvane go on strike.

 

[richardh10]

My insurer specified an autopilot and a windvane were needed for an ocean crossing. Ok, as I already had a Hydrovane, which I think is a great bit of kit but does need a bit of practise to get the best out of it.

 

[robmcg]

Would vane steering struggle on a boat that’s not designed to be capable of being hove to?

Not necessarily.........but then I haven't sailed a boat like that. Certainly the Hydrovane is the weapon of choice for a more modern boat if you go down the vane route. It has the advantage of being able to be fitted offset on the transom and avoids lines and turning blocks running to the wheel.

 

[ridgy]

Much talk about what I believe are quite expensive Hydrovanes, but it seems possible to DIY a windvane. On youtube, both Wave Rover and How to Sail Oceans have cobbled something together out of string and marine ply that appears to get them across the Atlantic.
Also no mention of sheet-to-tiller, which at a pinch seems to be able to keep a course should even the windvane go on strike.

If you're not afraid of a bit of woodwork then you can get a kit for this, about £500:

Hebridean self-steering wind vane

Would seem a good compromise between spending a fortune or spending many hours experimenting. I might make one next year.

 

[Sea Change]

We picked up our Hydrovane brand new still in its boxes but second hand for just under £2k. (Aborted plans due to a family crisis). I appreciate we were lucky but they are out there if you’re patient. Try and get a recent one with the latest rudder and upgraded shaft.

Hydrovane sell all the parts so if anything is needed (different mount?) then it’s available.

I see one sold on EBay recently for £3750.

That's an amazing bargain.
Our Hydrovane was £1500 but missing a couple of mounts, and I needed to buy a longer shaft, and then have the rudder bored out as they have upgraded the design since ours was built. So it cost around £2500 by the time it was ready to use.

Our replacement autopilot ram was €2000 .

 

[veshengro]

" Also no mention of sheet-to-tiller, which at a pinch seems to be able to keep a course should even the windvane go on strike."


I never tried sheet to tiller on the Gaff Cutter but I did just out of curiosity on the Nicholson 32. The Nic with her full long keel would hold a course very well for minutes at a time anyway with the wheel locked in position. I did try shipping the emergency tiller on the rudder stock head of the Nic but the main sheet track was quite well aft while the emergency tiller protruded halfway down the cockpit.
The result was a real pain getting a fair lead for the main sheet onto the tiller. I used some spare lead blocks but to be honest the result was a semi efficient over complicated web of steering lines. Ok in a dire emergency but unless I made some major changes to blocks on the boom or lead blocks around the cockpit, sheet to (emergency) tiller on the Nic was not really viable.

 

[Sea Change]

If you're not afraid of a bit of woodwork then you can get a kit for this, about £500:

Hebridean self-steering wind vane

Would seem a good compromise between spending a fortune or spending many hours experimenting. I might make one next year.

I met the designer a few years back (sadly he died a year or two ago) and a couple of friends built Hebrideans and used them on a trip to Faroe.
It's quite an unusual design but a chat with the designer and those who had used it was enough to convince me that it works and it's really very clever.

 

[Wansworth]

bill belcher published a book on wind vanes and included several designs for home construction