Sailing a Catamaran in the UK (Clyde / West Coast) feasible?

[Simon__]

I’ve been thinking about my next boat for a while and thought I was set on some sort of Pilothouse (Vancouver, Moody Eclipse etc.) but with a young family (infant / toddler) a catamaran is looking tempting..

Has anyone got experience of sailing a catamaran in the UK, or more specifically the Clyde and West Coast of Scotland? Is it feasible; can you moor in the small marinas / harbours, are the berthing costs outrageous? For reference I’m thinking of an 80/90s Prout (33-37ft).

Please share your experiences / regrets!

 

[LittleSister]

I've never owned a cat, but sailed a few (only). So these comments are offered as those of a somewhat sketchily informed but disinterested observer - I'm neither strongly pro or strongly anti, or perhaps more accurately I'm both very pro and very anti, depending, as you'll see! .

I was surprised how different the motion was from a monohull. Yes, a cat doesn't heel or roll far, but the motion is very fast and juddery. Some I sailed with really didn't like it, others weren't bothered by it. I can't remember anybody saying they actually liked it. I suggest you try and your crew try sailing a cat, if you haven't already, before you commit yourself.

The other thing about catamarans is that size REALLY matters, in my limited experience. With a monohull the available space inside increases proportionally (by a cube, or whatever) to the length - practicality and spaciousness increases gradually (but fast) with additional length. With a cat anything under the size range you mention none of the internal spaces - the hulls or bridge deck - work well for a human: the bridge deck accommodation wide but too shallow to be practical/comfortable, the hulls too narrow for most purposes, and access between those different spaces annoying at best. (I imagine with an infant and toddler that could be hellish.) With a (modern cruising) cat anything above the size range you mention, suddenly all those spaces suddenly can become tall and wide enough (subject to specific design) to be usable and practical spaces, easily accessed from one another, and the whole thing suddenly works and seems liberatingly spacious. I am not familiar enough with Prouts and the other catamarans within the length/age range you mention to know whether you will get the huge advantages I mention for the larger cats, but am rather sceptical.

 

[srm]

I owned a Prout Quest 31 for five years based in Stromness Orkney. It did not need a double berth to itself so no home marina surcharge. Cruised the west coast with it, but preferred to anchor and occasionally picked up a mooring. Sailed from Plymouth to Orkney when I bought it and back again to sell it, so did go in to some marinas on the way for fuel/rest days as single handed.

No experience of the Clyde as far too crowded to enjoy after many years sailing the NW Coast and Northern Isles.

The only place that I was charged extra berthing fees was in Scarborough (east coast England) when I went to to visit my ancient aunts.

I sold it after having to abort a passage from Lerwick to Bergen in fresh to strong NEly conditions. We almost got half way but repeatedly going over two or three waves at 5knots then coming to a juddering stop as the bows dug in to the face of the next one got too tiring and I was worried about the effect on the rig. The forecast was for the same or worse between us and Norway so we turned and had a fast sleigh ride towards Fair Isle. Its a passage I had successfully made a number of times before in longish keel monohulls, once in far worse conditions. To be fair that wind direction and strength do give steep waves out there. Also, as I told my crew, given the forecast with a high over us giving increasing wind as we sailed east I would not normally leave for that passage, but as they both had flights home booked from Bergen we gave it a try. Also, as a mono sailor I had added too much heavy gear, she may well have behaved better without the anchors, chain, self steering, gas cylinders, full water and fuel tanks, radar, etc etc.

I did enjoy the near all round visibility from the main cabin. Once having my lunch at the table I noticed an otter hunting for its lunch, something I would have missed in most monos. My next boat was a Trident Marine Voyager 35 as I wanted a deck saloon for warm watch keeping and living with a view having got used to it on the Prout.

With hindsight I think I would have been better to keep the Prout and accept the limitation on windward passage making in open water. I found the motion less tiring than the monos I have owned, and with the gear being lighter she was easy to handle and work on single handed. I often went out for an afternoon or evening sail from Stromness using just the big headsail and at times sailed her in or out of the berth without the engine just for the fun of it.

 

[capnsensible]

I recognise that Prouts are a bit dated now but I learnt stacks many tides ago sailing a 34 around the Clyde and the Firth of Forth. Moorings have changed for sure so I'm out of date. But so have sailing practices. There is no rush rush on a Prout and there are many anchorages that become feasible.

So not a lot of help, just to say don't write off Prout!!

 

[srm]

but with a young family (infant / toddler) a catamaran is looking tempting..

I can see a Prout making a good family boat if you can choose your weather and do not need to beat to windward in open seas too often. Mine had a fixed hardtop over the forward end of the cockpit making a secure protected area. There was a canvas cover from the hardtop to the cockpit's aft bulkhead providing a large sheltered area when moored; ideal for leaving wet weather clothing etc. and nice and snug in rain.

No experience of sailing with small children but it worked well with two hairy collies day sailing around the islands.

I met someone in Kirkwall marina who proudly told me how he had fitted two inboard engines to his. Certainly, it would make a good motorsailer. Just to make a point, as the wind was right, I singled up the midship line, let go the other mooring ropes, unrolled the headsail and left the marina without starting the engine.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I’ll start by admitting I have no experience of Scottish waters. I have sailed with small children (one so small we had to sterilise bottles for her) on various multihulls, including a 24ft Strider cat. A Prout would be infinitely easier. The nearest we came to that was buying a Dragonfly 800 off Roland Prout’s estate. Even a Quest 33 has the kind of space mentioned, they are hard to fault for accommodation. Sea keeping, all fine as long as it’s not a long hard beat, I am led to understand. Value for money, great, if you accept the windward performance. As long term multi owners, we’ve been charged for our bowsprit once in the last 30 years, never, for excess beam. But the extra space makes buoys and anchoring more attractive in any case.

 

[dunedin]

I am no expert on small cats, but a couple of thoughts….
1). The wind in the Clyde - and W of Scotland generally - tends to get funnelled by the hills that surround the various narrow Kyles and Lochs. Hence spend a lot of time either tacking upwind - or running downwind. Not great directions for most cats. Except on the open areas, tend not to spend much time reaching, which cats prefer, due to this wind funnelling.

2). Might be worth phoning around a few of the marinas you may wish to visit and check they won’t charge you extra for being a cat (perhaps 50% more). This would be very irritating in an elderly Prout cat - which is probably not materially wider than modern monohulls. For example it looks like the beam of a Prout 33 is almost the same as a Bavaria C42 monohull.

Also, as mentioned earlier, at 33 ft the usable interior space may be less than a similar sized monohull. When reach 37ft may start to change.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I am no expert on small cats, but a couple of thoughts….
1). The wind in the Clyde - and W of Scotland generally - tends to get funnelled by the hills that surround the various narrow Kyles and Lochs. Hence spend a lot of time either tacking upwind - or running downwind. Not great directions for most cats. Except on the open areas, tend not to spend much time reaching, which cats prefer, due to this wind funnelling.

2). Might be worth phoning around a few of the marinas you may wish to visit and check they won’t charge you extra for being a cat (perhaps 50% more). This would be very irritating in an elderly Prout cat - which is probably not materially wider than modern monohulls. For example it looks like the beam of a Prout 33 is almost the same as a Bavaria C42 monohull.

Also, as mentioned earlier, at 33 ft the usable interior space may be less than a similar sized monohull. When reach 37ft may start to change.

The 33 is pretty massve by our standards. And not being overly racy, a dead run is fine. They’re not useless to windward, but they will be beaten by most over 30ft bermudan monos on that point of sail.

 

[srm]

Also, as mentioned earlier, at 33 ft the usable interior space may be less than a similar sized monohull.

Have you actually been inside a Prout cat?
I took some colleagues out for a day sail, one on going in the cabin commented "its the Tardis".
The centre pod makes a big difference to usability on the bridge deck. The chart table would easily take a full size admiralty chart, and have only seen similar galley work top area and storage on far larger monos than my 31 ft Prout. Its a different layout, but I found it worked very well

 

[Openelectron]

I can't comment on the cat aspect. I sail in the Clyde with young children on a Dufour 35 Classic. We find the boat a great balance between space and easy handling. With young children you are usually solo sailing with passengers!.

As per a previous comment, we do always seem to find ourselves heading directly into the wind!

 

[Neeves]

Catamarans are dogs upwind, but then so are some monohulls. But in terms of the OP, he is talking of sailing with a toddler - how many would sail hard upwind (in a mono or cat) in any seas with a toddler on board (and all enjoy the experience). Someone would demanded to be with the toddler down below. The toddler might not actually mind but I would not relish being down below for 30 minutes let alone on a long passage.

I don't know Prouts, only seen a few, but Seawind made, maybe still make, a 10m cat with standing headroom, except right in the bow (the bridge deck slopes down).

Lightwaves 10.5 had full standing headroom, 2 queens, one double. Inboard diesels. Galley in one hull, nav station the other, massive saloon table. Head with a shower cubicle big enough for 2 or parent and toddler). We installed wash boards in ours for each transom to stop toddlers being washed out to sea in following seas , we had toddling grandchildren.

My experience is in Oz (38' Lightwave but same accomodation as the 10.5), most marinas cater for multihulls - they are more common here. We sold our cat to a family with a toddler (who spent a week cruising around Sydney with the toddler before they committed).

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Catamarans are dogs upwind, but then so are some monohulls. But in terms of the OP, he is talking of sailing with a toddler - how many would sail hard upwind (in a mono or cat) in any seas with a toddler on board (and all enjoy the experience). Someone would demanded to be with the toddler down below. The toddler might not actually mind but I would not relish being down below for 30 minutes let alone on a long passage.

I don't know Prouts, only seen a few, but Seawind made, maybe still make, a 10m cat with standing headroom, except right in the bow (the bridge deck slopes down).

Lightwaves 10.5 had full standing headroom, 2 queens, one double. Inboard diesels. Galley in one hull, nav station the other, massive saloon table. Head with a shower cubicle big enough for 2 or parent and toddler). We installed wash boards in ours for each transom to stop toddlers being washed out to sea in following seas , we had toddling grandchildren.

My experience is in Oz (38' Lightwave but same accomodation as the 10.5), most marinas cater for multihulls - they are more common here. We sold our cat to a family with a toddler (who spent a week cruising around Sydney with the toddler before they committed).

Jonathan

Ours used to lie in the front double berth on the dragonfly and brace their feet on the deck above whilst going to windward, then often go to sleep. However, an alternative on a cat like the Prout is surely to start the engine. That’s how non racy cats do it, isn’t it?

 

[Neeves]

If you are cruising and retired - you check the forecasts and if the next leg is to windward - you stay at anchor. Beating into any seas in a cat is simply uncomfortable. You simply cannot helm a multihull as you would a mono - you can steer one bow to minimise the impact of a breaking sea - achieving it with more than one hull is...impossible.

Stay at anchor, fish, catch crayfish, climb another hill - wait till the weather changes. Be patient. If you must move - choose a passage plan that allows you to reach.

As the price of diesel rises the costs of motoring in discomfort is going to become increasingly unattractive.

Owners on non racy cats who insist on motoring into the wind and seas have not yet developed patience or have won big on Lotto.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Tris are different. If it’s that kind of beating, you’ll only have 2 out of 3 in the water, and the ama will just go through the waves. Optimise the track of the main hull to stay a bit drier if you like, but other than that you concentrate on squeezing her up to windward. Failure to do that and the speed rises and tacking angles start to become more Prout like. Our Strider went to windward pretty well though. Just horribly wet. That was an open bridgedeck dagger board boat though. I do agree that hammering to windward for extended periods with kids isn’t fair on them. Ypu might be able to find strategies on the west coast, like motorsailing in any slight shelter to be found on a slightly windward shore, there will be flatter water there. Having even that diminutive main up will do much to ease the motion, and a surprising amount of added speed.

 

[Stemar]

I've never owned a cat, but sailed a few (only). So these comments are offered as those of a somewhat sketchily informed but disinterested observer - I'm neither strongly pro or strongly anti, or perhaps more accurately I'm both very pro and very anti, depending, as you'll see! .

I was surprised how different the motion was from a monohull. Yes, a cat doesn't heel or roll far, but the motion is very fast and juddery. Some I sailed with really didn't like it, others weren't bothered by it. I can't remember anybody saying they actually liked it. I suggest you try and your crew try sailing a cat, if you haven't already, before you commit yourself.

The other thing about catamarans is that size REALLY matters, in my limited experience. With a monohull the available space inside increases proportionally (by a cube, or whatever) to the length - practicality and spaciousness increases gradually (but fast) with additional length. With a cat anything under the size range you mention none of the internal spaces - the hulls or bridge deck - work well for a human: the bridge deck accommodation wide but too shallow to be practical/comfortable, the hulls too narrow for most purposes, and access between those different spaces annoying at best. (I imagine with an infant and toddler that could be hellish.) With a (modern cruising) cat anything above the size range you mention, suddenly all those spaces suddenly can become tall and wide enough (subject to specific design) to be usable and practical spaces, easily accessed from one another, and the whole thing suddenly works and seems liberatingly spacious. I am not familiar enough with Prouts and the other catamarans within the length/age range you mention to know whether you will get the huge advantages I mention for the larger cats, but am rather sceptical.

As the owner of a smaller cat (Catalac 8m), I'd agree with pretty much all of this. A solid mono has a much more comfortable movement when things get bumpy and, while the lack of headroom in the saloon doesn't bother us, carrying a small child around would get awkward. OTOH, there's more space than in a mono of a similar length.

To my mind, the main advantages of a cat is the shallow draft, which allows you to tuck into shallow corners where most monos can't go, and manoeuvrability, provided you have twin engines. Having seen twins and singles coming alongside when the wind and tide are being difficult, I'd make a serious effort to find a twin

 

[John_Silver]

I’ve been thinking about my next boat for a while and thought I was set on some sort of Pilothouse (Vancouver, Moody Eclipse etc.) but with a young family (infant / toddler) a catamaran is looking tempting..

Has anyone got experience of sailing a catamaran in the UK, or more specifically the Clyde and West Coast of Scotland? Is it feasible; can you moor in the small marinas / harbours, are the berthing costs outrageous? For reference I’m thinking of an 80/90s Prout (33-37ft).

Please share your experiences / regrets!

@Scillypete had a Prout Quest 33, until the start of this season. Frequent sight in West Country harbours and Scilly anchorages. Would have some valuable ownership insights….

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The Prout, space wise is 25% bigger linearly, than yours, Stemar, a 33ft bridgedeck cat is quite a big boat. Sailing qualities can’t be much different, and as you say, the low draught is another advantage, particularly with youngsters. We used to dry out on beaches a lot. If the tide was right, we could have our morning cuppa in peace, watching them dig in the sand in their pyjamas.

 

[capnsensible]

If you are cruising and retired - you check the forecasts and if the next leg is to windward - you stay at anchor. Beating into any seas in a cat is simply uncomfortable. You simply cannot helm a multihull as you would a mono - you can steer one bow to minimise the impact of a breaking sea - achieving it with more than one hull is...impossible.

Stay at anchor, fish, catch crayfish, climb another hill - wait till the weather changes. Be patient. If you must move - choose a passage plan that allows you to reach.

As the price of diesel rises the costs of motoring in discomfort is going to become increasingly unattractive.

Owners on non racy cats who insist on motoring into the wind and seas have not yet developed patience or have won big on Lotto.

Jonathan

Or have limited time for the pursuit of leisure....

 

[Neeves]

Actually

A reason for not sailing to windward in a cat is

You can minimise the discomfort by steering by hand - but if your passage is going to last for hours - it lacks any leisure and with the crew numbering 2 its debilitating (whether its multihull or mono).

Stay at anchor and wait for the front and its weather to pass through whether its a mono or multi.

'Sailing' it meant to be a pleasure not an SAS exercise.

Jonathan

 

[srm]

Stay at anchor and wait for the front and its weather to pass through whether its a mono or multi.

'Sailing' it meant to be a pleasure not an SAS exercise.

I agree totally, but sometimes had a bit of a problem achieving it.

The first summer of my retirement I took the Prout from Orkney to the north coast of Ireland. A few weather stops on the way down but a good passage and wonderful weather for a few days in Lough Swilly. I had also undertaken to act as skipper on a two week charter booking for one of Sail Orkney's boats. I allowed plenty of time for the (single handed) passage back north and the passage across to the Hebrides was straight forward. The weather then had other ideas with predominantly northerly winds. Lots of time at anchor or on a mooring monitoring every weather forecast as I worked my way up the Minches. I also discovered that getting diesel was not always easy as much of the passage was motor sailing when the wind eased. Then a few days in Stornoway before a break in the weather gave me an overnight sail to round Cape Wrath with the tide followed by a pleasant run to Orkney. I then had to slow down to wait for the tide in through Eynhallow Sound and got into Kirkwall marina early hours of Friday morning. Texted the charter company to say I was there but not to disturb me until the afternoon as I needed to sleep. The charter started Saturday morning when the family arrived from the airport.