capnsensible
Well-known member
Faffing around waiting for the perfect weather is not realistic in the UK, really. Average use of a 2 week summer trip and half a dozen weekends means an occasional challenge. Curse of the working people.
Sailing a Catamaran in the UK (Clyde / West Coast) feasible?
- Thread starter Simon__
- Start date
dunedin
Well-known member
Perhaps rethinking this from the basics, and the stated objective - going sailing with toddlers.
Clearly many liveaboards have successfully sailed round the world with toddlers. And we recently met a French couple on a 32 foot monohull who left France with a 4 week old baby, and the baby had cruised round the Faroe Islands before 4 months old. But on a boat 7x24 from birth they just assume the boat world is normal. And probably soon move onto home/boat schooling.
However, if the OP is more like most families - living primarily in a house, working for a living and hoping to go for occasional sails at weekends and occasional holiday from work, it is very different. Clearly I don’t know the OP’s work/family circumstances or home location. But if they are a “weekend sailor” this creates a different perspective for successful sailing with toddlers.
Firstly I would strongly recommend a pontoon berth not a mooring. You will have a lot of junk to carry. And a dinghy trip and climbing on board is likely to be fraught and will soon result in less boating (or even a “never again” edict from other half). It is much easier to go for a daysail if the boat is alongside a pontoon. So you will get a lot more use,
Secondly - location, location, location. With toddlers the best approach to boating, in my experience, is a very short trip in sheltered waters to somewhere where you can moor up - then play in the dinghy, on the beach, go for an ice cream etc.
In the Clyde, the best place for that is undoubtedly Largs Yacht Haven. Sheltered by island of Cumbrae. Millport with its new breakwater and wee Cumbrae with castle and beach less than 5 miles away. Rothesay a short hop, and then into Kyles of Bute.
Largs is also a nice place to spend a day just enjoying being on the boat, even if too windy to go sailing.
The issue is that as a consequence, Largs is one of the most expensive places on the Clyde. (But if you get more usage, the cost per day sailing is probably better than elsewhere - but you should never go down that calculation route!)
Hence you might want to check if Largs would charge a multihull premium for a small / narrow Prout cat - if so that would be breathtakingly expensive. In which case say a 32 foot monohull might be more affordable,
Also, it might be worth thinking about buying something mainstream that is easy to sell on in a few years time - a Hanse/Bav/Ben/Jean 32 for example. Unless you are extremely dedicated (and ruthless) you are likely to find once they reach school age, and perhaps add to the numbers, it is almost impossible to find a free weekend where there are no parties, football clubs etc AND the weather is decent to actually go sailing, Hence like many of us you decide to sell and accept the sailing for a decade or so is mainly a charter in warm waters in the school holidays, And if you are the ruthless sailing first type, you will need to trade up to a bigger boat as the kids grow and want to bring friends.
PS. For sailing with kids, or any day sailing, Troon and Ardrossan are bad choices as bumpy / exposed to the SW and a long way to an anchorage for shelter and playing. Ditto places like Rhu are lovely, but it is a repetitive long slog to Cloch every weekend (literally, been there done that!).
Hope this helps
Clearly many liveaboards have successfully sailed round the world with toddlers. And we recently met a French couple on a 32 foot monohull who left France with a 4 week old baby, and the baby had cruised round the Faroe Islands before 4 months old. But on a boat 7x24 from birth they just assume the boat world is normal. And probably soon move onto home/boat schooling.
However, if the OP is more like most families - living primarily in a house, working for a living and hoping to go for occasional sails at weekends and occasional holiday from work, it is very different. Clearly I don’t know the OP’s work/family circumstances or home location. But if they are a “weekend sailor” this creates a different perspective for successful sailing with toddlers.
Firstly I would strongly recommend a pontoon berth not a mooring. You will have a lot of junk to carry. And a dinghy trip and climbing on board is likely to be fraught and will soon result in less boating (or even a “never again” edict from other half). It is much easier to go for a daysail if the boat is alongside a pontoon. So you will get a lot more use,
Secondly - location, location, location. With toddlers the best approach to boating, in my experience, is a very short trip in sheltered waters to somewhere where you can moor up - then play in the dinghy, on the beach, go for an ice cream etc.
In the Clyde, the best place for that is undoubtedly Largs Yacht Haven. Sheltered by island of Cumbrae. Millport with its new breakwater and wee Cumbrae with castle and beach less than 5 miles away. Rothesay a short hop, and then into Kyles of Bute.
Largs is also a nice place to spend a day just enjoying being on the boat, even if too windy to go sailing.
The issue is that as a consequence, Largs is one of the most expensive places on the Clyde. (But if you get more usage, the cost per day sailing is probably better than elsewhere - but you should never go down that calculation route!)
Hence you might want to check if Largs would charge a multihull premium for a small / narrow Prout cat - if so that would be breathtakingly expensive. In which case say a 32 foot monohull might be more affordable,
Also, it might be worth thinking about buying something mainstream that is easy to sell on in a few years time - a Hanse/Bav/Ben/Jean 32 for example. Unless you are extremely dedicated (and ruthless) you are likely to find once they reach school age, and perhaps add to the numbers, it is almost impossible to find a free weekend where there are no parties, football clubs etc AND the weather is decent to actually go sailing, Hence like many of us you decide to sell and accept the sailing for a decade or so is mainly a charter in warm waters in the school holidays, And if you are the ruthless sailing first type, you will need to trade up to a bigger boat as the kids grow and want to bring friends.
PS. For sailing with kids, or any day sailing, Troon and Ardrossan are bad choices as bumpy / exposed to the SW and a long way to an anchorage for shelter and playing. Ditto places like Rhu are lovely, but it is a repetitive long slog to Cloch every weekend (literally, been there done that!).
Hope this helps
Neeves
Well-known member
My reading is
You were a bit twitchy of meeting your commitments - but you were patient, did nothing heroic, made it with time to spare. And you should have been pleased with yourself - all credit due (but no-one would have known how fine the schedule was cut.)
Now that you have been retired for some time now .... you would not be so twitchy - it always works out.
Jonathan
dunedin
Well-known member
It is an ENTIRELY different world sailing as a retired person compared to trying to juggle full time work (probably two jobs) and young family plus sailingMy reading is
You were a bit twitchy of meeting your commitments - but you were patient, did nothing heroic, made it with time to spare. And you should have been pleased with yourself - all credit due (but no-one would have known how fine the schedule was cut.)
Now that you have been retired for some time now .... you would not be so twitchy - it always works out.
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-known member
We owned yachts that suited our lifestyle -
We had our own business Mon/Sat in HK and raced virtually every Sunday. Any extended weekend might be offshore races or we would go for a cruise to the isolated parts of HK. If we had to motor though the harbour in the dark to get home on Sunday - no problem. But it was a J24 then an X-99 nothing palatial - camping on the water.
Before we decided to retire we had Corby design something to replace the X-99.
Plans changed
Once we retired, sold business, we could look for extended time on the water and had a semi production cat built for cruising (we did look at Prout). We kept her for 25 years. Initially we sailed to the Whitsundays but found it a bit crowded so changed the destination to Tasmania (which is very much like Scotland) - except we have Bass Strait to cross to get to Tasmania - and it needs patience (in either direction).
Buying any yacht, multi or mono, with 4 weeks holiday and with a young family (on the west cost of Scotland) - I lived near Stirling but went to Uni in Glasgow - means considering some compromises. But if you want a very comfortable floating caravan (that can also cross Bass Strait) - we would not walk past a cat.
Jonathan
cherod
Well-known member
srm
Well-known member
Yes, used to take stepdaughter and her school friends (I think we had ten onboard for one trip) for beach parties. Drop them off on the beach, back off and anchor until they called me back by shouting in unison.
mjcoon
Well-known member
18-30 kindergarten?
srm
Well-known member
I'll leave you to you fantasies.
Iliade
Well-known member
If any boat slams upwind, try slowing down a little (or even a lot!) My first boat, a 1970's 1/4 tonner, quickly taught me that. Also to move the anchor chain etc. aft.
Watching Fecamp's ancient traditional fishing boat full of tourists come in comfortably through twenty foot waves is a real education.
My first boat, a 1970's 1/4 tonner, quickly taught me that. Also to move the anchor chain etc. aft.Watching Fecamp's ancient traditional fishing boat full of tourists come in comfortably through twenty foot waves is a real education.
mrangry
Active member
As a child I spent countless summer holidays and weekends on a 23ft Bobcat in the Clyde as an uncle sailed one. This was latterly upgraded to a Prout Snowgoose 37 which my cousin still keeps in Ardrossan. We were a large extended family and find cats are more suited for carrying small kids as they generally have larger cockpits and massive saloons in comparison to most monohulls. They can also be beached negating the need for dinghy trips ashore and dont heal over like a monohull. However you still have steps accessing the two hulls from the saloon which I suppose could be gated if need be.
They sail surprisingly well in the right conditions and are fast as they are a lot lighter, however as stated they dont point well. I also wouldnt like to be on one in any weather as I found them to be a bit like a cork on the water so to speak. I am pretty sure my cousin doesnt pay a premium for beam which infact is very similar to that of my monhull.
They sail surprisingly well in the right conditions and are fast as they are a lot lighter, however as stated they dont point well. I also wouldnt like to be on one in any weather as I found them to be a bit like a cork on the water so to speak. I am pretty sure my cousin doesnt pay a premium for beam which infact is very similar to that of my monhull.
srm
Well-known member
When the wind gets up the waves usually get bigger and the cat just follows the water surface, so in big waves she just goes up one side and down the other without the added angles of heel from a mono.
My first cruising boat was the small Bobcat, 8 metres or 26ft, (not 23ft). I had her over to 45 degrees during a gale in the North Sea. I know the angle because there was a clinometer on the cockpit bulkhead. I saw the breaking wave coming, ducked and held on with the clinometer just in front of my face. The boat went to 45 degrees on the face of the wave sliding sideways then upright and back the other way as the crest passed under. To my surprise no water in the cockpit.
No small boat is comfortable in coarse weather, but having owned two catamarans and thee monohulls, plus sailed a number of other monos, I found the motion of a cat no worse, and most of the time less tiring, than a mono in similar sea and wind conditions. However, we are all different and other people may well experience it the other way round.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Some years ago, a friend of mine had a Prout Event 34 that was delivered as a hull and deck. He fitted it it out with occasional help from me and a number of others. This had a single engine with an outdrive leg that had limited steering with a kind of tiller. I was quite familiar with this having previously sailed a lot on his previous boat, a Prout 31.
He had the idea that I could take the yacht from Port Edgar near Edinburgh to Bergen, Norway where we would swap over for him to bring back. I had four crew, well provisioned...and a case of whisky.
Was a pleasant, if somewhat bumpy trip across to Stavanger for a well earned pit stop. Then onwards to Haugesund. Ready to leave the next day, I got about 2 metres off the dock when the engine crunched to a halt and we drifted back alongside. One of my crew was a car mechanic and he quickly diagnosed that the gearbox had resolved itself into a box full of gears... So we we took it off, quite easy, for a better look but it was well knackered. Being a volvo we thought we were in a good place. A local mechanic had a look but no luck. However a friend of his offered to drive my crewman around locally. Still no luck but he was well chuffed with a bottle of whisky, that's super expensive in Nogland.
I phoned my oppo and put him I the picture. He found a new box available for instant collection and was booked on the ferry to Bergen., about 70 miles north up through some wiggly and rocky fjords. So I briefed the crew and we sailed off the dock with a nice send off from the locals. It took me around 26 hours to sail the Prout to Begen in all sorts of wind. The channels are well marked, especially at night so navigation was OK but the winds fickle, sometimes gusty katabatic, sometimes very light. Was a fab challenge though thoroughly enjoyed it. The last mile into Bergen was in very light airs where a maritime festival was taking place with boats everywhere. Just made it onto the old navy docks by rowing a line shore using the tender.
Beer o'clock for sure. Everyone buzzing.
We later discovered two things. The dock was a routine meeting point for ladies of negotiable affection. Nice girls who were quite chatty even after realising that we weren't there for business.
Secondly, next day when the owner arrived he told us he didn't realise the ferry stopped at....Haugesund.
20 minutes to fit and test new gearbox. Then two of us flew back to Glasgow via Aberdeen. Top trip.
As an aside, the guy I flew back with was so impressed that he bought a Prout Quest 8n Glasgow and a while later I sailed it to Gibraltar with him, another adventure!
He had the idea that I could take the yacht from Port Edgar near Edinburgh to Bergen, Norway where we would swap over for him to bring back. I had four crew, well provisioned...and a case of whisky.
Was a pleasant, if somewhat bumpy trip across to Stavanger for a well earned pit stop. Then onwards to Haugesund. Ready to leave the next day, I got about 2 metres off the dock when the engine crunched to a halt and we drifted back alongside. One of my crew was a car mechanic and he quickly diagnosed that the gearbox had resolved itself into a box full of gears... So we we took it off, quite easy, for a better look but it was well knackered. Being a volvo we thought we were in a good place. A local mechanic had a look but no luck. However a friend of his offered to drive my crewman around locally. Still no luck but he was well chuffed with a bottle of whisky, that's super expensive in Nogland.
I phoned my oppo and put him I the picture. He found a new box available for instant collection and was booked on the ferry to Bergen., about 70 miles north up through some wiggly and rocky fjords. So I briefed the crew and we sailed off the dock with a nice send off from the locals. It took me around 26 hours to sail the Prout to Begen in all sorts of wind. The channels are well marked, especially at night so navigation was OK but the winds fickle, sometimes gusty katabatic, sometimes very light. Was a fab challenge though thoroughly enjoyed it. The last mile into Bergen was in very light airs where a maritime festival was taking place with boats everywhere. Just made it onto the old navy docks by rowing a line shore using the tender.
Beer o'clock for sure. Everyone buzzing.
We later discovered two things. The dock was a routine meeting point for ladies of negotiable affection. Nice girls who were quite chatty even after realising that we weren't there for business.
Secondly, next day when the owner arrived he told us he didn't realise the ferry stopped at....Haugesund.
20 minutes to fit and test new gearbox. Then two of us flew back to Glasgow via Aberdeen. Top trip.
As an aside, the guy I flew back with was so impressed that he bought a Prout Quest 8n Glasgow and a while later I sailed it to Gibraltar with him, another adventure!
mrangry
Active member
In Lagos Portugal last year we sailed for the day on a skippered Fountaine Pajot Helia 44 which was a lovely boat, however speaking to the skipper who has delivered all over the world his words were " I wouldnt want to be on this in any heavy weather".
srm
Well-known member
Did you ask why?
I would not want to be on a 45ft Elan in heavy weather offshore having been paid to skipper one and having experienced how badly it handled in a F7 with a significant wave height of around one metre in the Minch off Stornoway. That was a specific boat and my concerns only apply to a specific set of design features, certainly not all monohulls.
It would make a very nice marina apartment and sailed beautifully in light winds and calm seas though.
capnsensible
Well-known member
I delivered a Fontaine Pajot Lavezzi a while back from St. Lucia to Croatia ( we called it the groundhog day trip). We encountered a bit of a storm a week or so west of the Azores with winds up to nearly 60 knots. The boat handled it with no problems under small headsail on a broad reach.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
F7? We’d have barely sailed at all this year if we didn’t want to be in that. In a 30ft 2 ton tri, I can’t say it’s what I sail for, but it’s perfectly do-able. We can still make good ground to windward, and even relax, downwind. Though from appearances you just can’t tell. Sir Francis Chichester hated his boat because of it’s strong wind handling. IIRC it was an issue with the forefoot, and changing helm characteristics as it heeled.
srm
Well-known member
Yes, I was very surprised, to put it politely, at how badly it handled. I may be underestimating the wind strength though, as can not remember the actual figures. The boats I would normally sail, mono and cat, would not have had a problem in those conditions under appropriately reefed main and partly rolled headsail.
dunedin
Well-known member
Wow, more forum thread drift - from the OP wanting to take toddlers sailing on the Clyde.
In a F7 the only boat on which I would suggest the OP took toddlers new to boating would be a Calmac ferry - and even then probably not one of the Arran routes,
PS Re the drift to Elan’s, we had a Rob Humphrey’s designed Ellen 362 and it was a brilliant boat, which we took all over the Clyde and West Coast / Outer Hebrides. Fast but never furious - bit like a bigger/faster Westerly Fulmar in that respect,
In a F7 the only boat on which I would suggest the OP took toddlers new to boating would be a Calmac ferry - and even then probably not one of the Arran routes,
PS Re the drift to Elan’s, we had a Rob Humphrey’s designed Ellen 362 and it was a brilliant boat, which we took all over the Clyde and West Coast / Outer Hebrides. Fast but never furious - bit like a bigger/faster Westerly Fulmar in that respect,
Scillypete
Well-known member
Bit late to the discussion. . . . Haven’t looked in for some time.
Yes I owned a Prout Quest 33cs up until April this year, 11 good years of cruising fun. Suited our needs well with plenty of room and comforts. Grand kids loved it whenever they spent time aboard as did friends with kids. Managed to sleep three kids and three adults onboard for a week of pottering about without feeling cramped.
No experience of sailing the area the OP is interested in so have no idea of the costs of marinas or moorings up that way, but when onboard in reasonable weather the expanse of deck space really comes into it’s own. We carried bean bags aboard and used them constantly they were a brilliant addition.
Sailing wise as long as you accept the windward pointing limitations then you will not really be disappointed, they do sail to windward just don’t point too high and keep the speed on, not recommended for anyone with false teeth though.
These are now older boats, as are the monos mentioned so there will be things to watch out for but a good survey should show these.
If it’s any help, probably not, the following link is a short video of me beating home before the weather turned for the worse