Sail Repair & reefing lines

[jimi]

Any recommendations for a sail repairer in the Sothampton area, I ripped the luff last weekend and also wish to move the position of the second reef and add a third reef so that the second reef is not as deep but the third reef is deeper than the current 2nd reef. Also any ideas on reefing lines so that I do'nt need to keep three pernamently rigged reefing lines but also do'nt have the hassle of threading the 3rd when its required. I've got an Oceanis 331.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Sanders, Lymington

Recut a main for me last winter and did a nice job

 

[dickh]

I have 3 permanent rigged reefing lines and I have no problem apart from lots of bits of rope. I did fit a new boom a few years ago and it had 4 sheaves at the end so I could do this easily and still have remote outhaul. In hindsight I would go for the slightly smaller boom with 3 sheaves and fit an eye to the end of the boom and use a lanyard for the clew attachment, as I find in practice I never adjust the out haul.
In the past I've tried threading a 3rd reef line whilst blowing a hooghly and it was no fun! Always keep them permanently rigged. Another solution would be to have the first reef as a manual reef at the mast(perhaps rigged on the outside of the boom) and the 2nd & 3rd reef from the cockpit. That way when reefing after the 1st you reef from the cockpit - although on mine you still have to go to the mast for to hook the tack on.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Chris_Robb]

Lucas and Sons - I think they are now in Fareham.

Don't even think about putting the third reef in when you need to reef - next to impossible and bloody dangerous.! Have it in all the time even if you are not expecting bad weather.(IMHO)

 

[jimi]

Agree completely with what you say but had wondered about:
When second reef goes in slacken first reefing line and attach to third reefing points using screwgate karabiners. What do you think?

 

[Twister_Ken]

I've tried in the past running a mouse through the third reef clew, and feeding the first reef pennant through the third clew, after putting the second reef in.

BTW, Lucas used to look after repairs for a boat I raced on, and they always did a good job, BUT we did have a Lucas employee aboard!

It doesn't work very well.

 

[JeremyF]

Jimi,

I'm looking forward to hearing about other folks solutions. My main is at Lucas having the foot strengthened, and a 3rd reef added. I havent figured out how I am going to deal with the lines though. The only conclusion I have reached is that adding a 3rd single line will make raising the main almost impossible without pulling out miles of string.

Ive heard of a suggestion to have two lines, one for the leech, another for the luff, and run the leech one external to the boom. Has anyone tried this?

<font color=red>Jeremy Flynn/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif
Dawn Chorus</font color=red>

 

[Chris_Robb]

Even with my sedate old 13 ton Victory, I would not want to do anything more than the bare minimum once its blowing. To try to fix ANYTHING to the end of the boom on a lighter weight boat is really not safe. - You should be able to pop rivet an eye and a cheack block to take the third reef of a permenant basis, running to a cleat on the inboard end of the boom. The Sheeting points from the first reef will not be right for the third reef, being to far along the boom. The correct angle is to bisect the angle of the foot and leech. Remember when reefing that if you raise the topping lift by several feet it is much easier to pull in a really flat reef.

Make sure the leechline is easily adjusted as you will almost certanley need to tighten it once the reef is in tight, other wise the leech will 'motor' and self distruct in high winds.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Jeremy - on older boats all the reef lines were external. Only the leech needs to have a line, the mast end can be manually put round the hook on the boom. I have an eye on oneside and a cheack block on the other and a couple of cleats (or an expensive rope stopper) at the inboard end of the boom.

With a third reef however you may need to tie a ring (very strongly) to the mast end reef point as it may be difficult to get it on the hook with a third reef. Check that Lucas give you good adjustable leech line cleats at each reef point.

 

[dickh]

On my boat I have 3 reefs; the tack is hooked on at the gooseneck and the clew is pulled down from the cockpit with internal lines in the boom. The lines are fed from an eye under the boom, thro' the cringle and back to the end of the boom sheeves and then to the cockpit. This gives you a theoretical 2:1 advantage and I fitted ball race blocks to lead the line back to the cockpit via Lewmar Clutches; I can also winch them as well but in practice as long as I release the kicker, I can pull them tight enough by hand - although the 3rd reef is better if finally winched in.
Don't finally fix the end of the line to the boom without experimenting first,( I had slideable eyes running in the groove under the boom which I finally rivetted on) it needs to pull the sail down at about 30º to the vertical backwards, and then the line goes to the sheeve - in practice this works well and the foot of the sail is well snugged down, even with the 3rd reef.

The only disadvantage is you get lots of rope in the cockpit and you have to go to the mast to hook the tack on(I have an elasticated loop which I slip over the hook to prevent the tack coming off again before you hoist the main again).
I also have marked the main halyard with a black whipping so I know how far to let it down before clutching it.

You can get booms with internal blocks whereby you can reef both the clew and the tack simultaneously with a single line - but 2 reefs only but apparently work well. So you still would have to reef the 1st reef externally on the boom.

Regarding pulling up the main, yes, you do have lots of rope flying about, its one of the disadvantages, but as the rope is already 'pulled out' the main is no more difficult to raise.

Also after putting in the 1st reef, I pull in the 2nd & 3rd reef to marked positions ready for further reductions. Together with the 'elasticated loop' on the tack, I find I can reef in about a minute and works well for me.

I do have ideas about single line reefing from the cockpit and am going to experiment next season.

One point about your sailmaker putting in a 3rd reef - mine is slightly not parallel to the boom so the clew is raised so the boom doesn't droop. On a friends boat, the boom droops so much it fouls the sprayhood and can hit your head.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[vyv_cox]

3-reef single line

One small correction to this good post from dickh. A third reef will not normally work on a single line system because the length of clew pennant to be taken up must be less than twice the length of the boom. It is usually the case that the leech length is more than this. The balance blocks for my second reef are almost at the forward end of the boom when fully hauled tight. So the only option is to have single line on the first and second and a double line system for the third. This could be internal or external, dependent upon the boom design.

 

[jimi]

Re: 3-reef single line

At the moment I've got single line reefing for the existing two reefs with the rope running up to the reef point in the luff then along the boom to the sheave at the end up to the reef point on the luff and down to the boom. What I was considering was when the second reef is put in is to slacken the first reefing line and then clip the first reefing line at the luff using a screwgate Krab, attach the first reefing line at boom end to the third reef anchor point on the boom, using a screwgate on a loop attached to the 3rd anchor point, and attaching the first reefing line with a screwgate Krab to the reefing point on the leech. As far as I can see there's not too much hassle here, just a bit of pulling through the first reefing line, slacken the hayard whilst reef points on leech an luff are clipped, pull through first reef line to be clipped to loop on third reef anchor point on boom.
The third reef is then ready to be used. If the second reef is required to be shaken out then all that is required is declipping and the slack taken up on the first reef line. If my verbals inadequately describe what I mean PM me with an Email address and I'll send a diagram. Just wonder if anyone has tried or has heard of such a system?

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: 3-reef single line

Right, I understand, you only have a single line throughout. The perceived disadvantages of this system are that there is a massive amount of line to pull through, which takes a lot of effort and time, and that there is a two-to-one purchase on the luff cringle. This pulls down first, with the result that there is a large increase in friction when it comes to pulling down the leech. The balance block method avoids these problems.

There is a method that avoids your problem, and that is to take the single line from the cockpit to the leech end of the boom first, to the leech cringle, then forward along the boom to the luff cringle. This requires you to haul slightly less line and pulls down the leech first. I guess that could be transferred from the 1st to 3rd reef without too much trouble. But you would still be clambering about trying to attach something to the sail near the end of the boom in 40 knots of wind.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: 3-reef single line

As long as you can reach to the third reef leech cringle without going base-over-apex off the lugger.