Sail Makers

Adrian

Adrian

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 Jun 2001
Messages
841
Location
Me Midlands, Boat Port Grimaud SOF
www.kydproducts.co.uk
I need to replace the furling jib on my Hanse 312, I've had a couple of quotes but have been shocked by the prices (one in the UK and one in the SOF where the boat is based), can anyone recommend a sail maker that produces budget sails?
I really dont need anything fancy, just a simple cruising sail.
 
Well you can always try the internet based lofts that claim to have cheaper production bases and more efficient work practices. The good ones have a very detailed walk through of what you will need to do, but if you are looking to replace an existing sail, then the required measuring process is not difficult.

I've had good experience with Rolly Tasker Sails but Precision Sails also claim to be focussed on this market.

Then there’s Lee Sails in Hong Kong. Their ‘online interface’ isn’t as slick but cruisers around the world have had really good sails made by them since at least the 1970s to my knowledge.
 
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Motor_Sailor said:
Well you can always try the internet based lofts that claim to have cheaper production bases and more efficient work practices. The good ones have a very detailed walk through of what you will need to do, but if you are looking to replace an existing sail, then the required measuring process is not difficult.

I've had good experience with Rolly Tasker Sails but Precision Sails also claim to be focussed on this market.

Then there’s Lee Sails in Hong Kong. Their ‘online interface’ isn’t as slick but cruisers around the world have had really good sails made by them since at least the 1970s to my knowledge.
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My (very small) experience is that in fact, sailmakers like Jeckells, are as cheap if not cheaper than the far eastern suppliers. I was interested in Lee Sails because I had hoped to be able to benefit from having contacts through family in Hong Kong and getting them delivered there, but in fact they were no cheaper than Jeckells! Of course, Jeckells are a long-established sailmaker, but they tend to produce more "ordinary" styles of sail.

Really it depends what you expected price-wise. I bought white sails (genoa and main, with lazy-jacks and stack-pack) for a Moody 31 from Jeckells at a cost of just under £3000 2 years ago. That wasn't a bad price for that time, and included visiting to measure.
 
Having your boat in the South of France will cause a few problems. If you buy outside the EU, then you will have Fench VAT to pay. Just another problem.

I have used Kemp for Vektran sails with lots of extras. If you want a budget sail, then you will find the biggest influence will be the quality of the sail cloth. The other factors include how the sail is built, like does it have a foam luff for better set when furled. Another big factor is how the leech is made. Budget sails will have a 4 ply leech, where as better sails have a 6 ply leech. The difference is felt when you need the sacrificial strip replaced as the 4 ply requires a full remake and the 6 ply just requires the new sacrificial strip, the extra cost will equal the original cost difference and on the second replacement it will have cost you more. So, in reality you will get what you pay for.

You should try to understand what you want from a sail, rather than just buy the cheapest. Get quotes from a number of different sources once you know what you want. In addition to those already mentioned, you could try Wilkinson Sails in Faversham. The owner and staff are very knowledgable, plus they do not have expensive premises to add to the sail costs. They do all my sail maintenance, so I know them quite well and their prices are fair and keen.

Wilkinson Sails | Faversham
 
I have bought new sails recently and got several quotes from UK sailmakers as well as from the East. The only far east company that was significantly cheaper on basic sails was this one Sail Loft| Direct-Sails although mainly because of "special offers" at the time. However specifying and buying sails is a minefield because of all the different cloths available, different cuts and methods of construction and fittings which makes direct comparisons very difficult. In general the basis for lower costs is a function of the amount of labour involved and the potential difference is greater on mainsails than foresails because of things like battens, reefing points, headboards which are labour intensive to fit. Just about all sailmakers use a CAD sail design and cutting process and many actually outsource this just doing the putting together and finishing bit.

Sails are not a frequent purchase and to my mind there is value in trying to get the best you can for your money rather than just getting the cheapest. My last boat I bought new with basic sails which did not last. The jib had to be recut twice and the mainsail was shot after less than 5 years light use. The replacement was in a different league.

Like others on this thread I get my sails made by Kemps (who do everything in house) and pretty sure you will get a good balance of quality and price. Their esails service is lower cost, typically by 10% because there is no measuring or design service - you just do your own measuring or tell them the boat if it is a standard boat. The actual sail will be the same quality of cloth and fittings as a custom made one. Not everybody needs a custom service or can use it because their boat is not local.

There is nothing wrong with "standard" sails - they will be better than Hanse fitted to the boat originally. However once you have had custom sails to a higher spec you appreciate their extra value.
 
I have the same boat & at 19 years from new I am on my 4Th ST jib & will be looking for another soon but new rigging this year has delayed that.
Believe me when I tell you that cheap jibs on a Hanse are a waste of money. They are a blade shape & the first thing that happens is that the head of the sail "tubes". In other words it just loses its shape & forms a semi circle. The leech will soon start to flutter & then you have to hook it as you tighten the leech line. The dacron will stretch & the shape is lost.
One does not sail with the ST furled because one reefs the mainsail first & carries the full jib well up to F7. That means it gets worked hard. You need a fairly heavy cloth.
I currently have a laminate jib from Ultimate sails, £1500 at the time. However I had a Hyde Marblehead racing prior to that & that did quite well. Buying it in October ( which is always the best time to buy any sail regardless of manufacturer) gets one a 20% discount. I have had 2 mainsails from Hyde & they are both good. The original one from Hanse was less so. I also have Hyde sails on my Squib.
I have had excellent sails from our local sailmaker Lonton & Gray for one of my ST jibs & my Squib.
However, When I upgrade I will go to Hyde for the mainsail & possibly the jib Or Ultimate for the jib if I feel flushed. It will be laminate again. Hyde make the sails abroad but they own the loft.
I went with Ultimate because at the time they were making the top blade sails for the J classes & the Hanse jib is a blade
Hyde have the dimensions for the sails; But both sailmakers came to the boat & discussed the cut & shape with me at the time.
So I would suggest Hyde & go for a decent cloth- Get their advice on the best you can afford. Do not go for a cheapo. It is bad economy
 
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+1 to all that. Buying cheap sails because they’re cheap is like buying a Chinese outboard. Very quickly, the shine comes off. We’ve just had a new jib, after a short loft selection process. Ullman Sails, in the shape of Rob Larke, came to the boat, measured meticulously, and obviously it fitted perfectly. Likewise, we ordered way back in the Autumn.
 
Adrian said:
Thanks everyone, lots to think about there.
The original sail is North, that’s who I got to quote from in the UK, I drive to the boat so getting it there isn’t a problem.
I’ll look at Kemps and see how they compare.
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I don't think North and Budget are two words than can ever go in the same sentence. More like a go away price. Pretty much anyone else in the UK will be cheaper.
 
ridgy said:
I don't think North and Budget are two words than can ever go in the same sentence. More like a go away price. Pretty much anyone else in the UK will be cheaper.
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We found that, for sure. We also found that they didn’t seem to give a damn. I didn’t mind the price, they have something to offer for it. I did mind the ‘take it or leave it’ approach, and that they weren’t interested in measuring up.
 
I think North offer much for Atlantic crossing sailors with service but a price however leaving that aside ,after consulting a Hanse owners website for suggestions I would speak to a few based on what sails you see on other Hanse I’ve just had a sail made by well known Lymington team but ask PS for a quote-a lot turns on material but as others have said quality vectran (a hood term I think originally) . I guess being in south you might want a fuller cut on what I assume is a self tacker on Hanse but a durability pays off long term.
 
The original North sails will have been very basic and probably made in the Far East - just like the Elvestrom sails that Bavaria supply. They are nothing like the ones those sailmakers offer in the replacement market and the quote you will have had is for a far superior sail. As noted, even for similar quality to other UK sailmakers their prices will be higher because this is not the market they are aiming at.

Suggest you get quotes from Kemps, Crusader and Sanders. There are plenty of other sailmakers, but these three are probably the most commonly mentioned on here. You will find plenty of information on their websites of the differences in cloths and therefore the prices. this is the Kemps site section on fabrics as an example kempsails.com/sail-fabric/
 
Adrian said:
Thanks everyone, lots to think about there.
The original sail is North, that’s who I got to quote from in the UK, I drive to the boat so getting it there isn’t a problem.
I’ll look at Kemps and see how they compare.
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Need to be careful that you don’t end up needing to pay VAT twice if buy in the UK and then drive them out to the boat.
Clearly you may get away with effectively smuggling them through the ferry - or you may not.
Big sailmakers like North are used to exporting them direct to the boat, in which case can be sent without paying UK VAT - but this then incurs courier and potentially agency costs.
Buying in the EU is likely to be simpler.
 
Bobc said:
Most Hyde sails are made in Malaysia.
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But Hyde do own the loft. Unlike others who may just subcontract the sails out to a foreign sail maker. I would imagine that they would also ship direct to the boat & be fully aware of ways of reducing import taxes for boat owners overseas.
As should reasonably organized Uk sail makers , of course.
 
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My experience is that North’s market is fancy racing sails for money no object sailors. I don’t see them supplying the everyday transatlantic family sailor. I asked for a quote from them many years ago and it was so obviously a ‘go away’ price, I’ve never asked again.

Sanders sails are excellent and good value. Just as importantly Pete Sanders really knows what he’s talking about and will give good advice. Otter sailmakers are possible but we use Sanders and are very happy.
 
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bring the existing sail back for sizing as transport is not a problem and get a price for renovation
Don’t put the wrong one in the boot in the old bag to avoid VAT
 
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