Sad case of deaths at sea.....not keeping watch

[Adios]

That standard does apply to every PPL and as you say, it should apply to skippers too...including the James 2's skipper.

Shall we talk about the alcohol limits next?

The fact he installed a radio without bothering to get a licence to operate it says something about his attitude.

On alcohol I don't drink any more but when I did I never would at sea. I take being at sea seriously, more so if I have passengers. The fishing boat skipper aided a fairly small percent in the accident which was waiting to happen.

 

[Achosenman]

Go on then, you first.......

No problem at all. Here you go.

Aviation The Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003 sets out a prescribed alcohol limit for people involved in aviation activities including flight crew, cabin crew and air traffic controllers (ATCOs). The limit is 20mg of alcohol/100ml blood except for licensed aircraft engineers for whom the limit is 80mg/100ml (the same as the current drink driving limit in England and Wales). The Act authorises the police to test flight crew, cabin crew and ground crew after accidents or incidents or with due cause.

Change the word aviation to maritime and change roles and titles to suit.

 

[Achosenman]

Can you please link your source of info that states the 3 person's onboard james 2 where infact intoxicated? Or is that just assumptions?

Just because they where in a small fishing boat that does NOT mean they where pissed, Not wearing LJ'S and acting like complete yobos.

Stereotyping?...

This information comes from the survivor who gave testimony to the fact.

Oliver Powell, defending, asked Mr Cojocariu how much alcohol the group had drank during the day and on the evening of the incident.

Mr Cojocariu admitted a substantial amount of alcohol including whisky, beer, wine and vodka had been drunk.

The case continues.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Imagine being the family of the deceased. How hard would it be to find confidence in the justice system and be able to move forward with the loss when the are handing out a short stays like that.

If I was capable of being objective I'd be feeling that the verdict was a hollow victory. If the skipper of James 2 had proper lights or insisted on lifejackets at night or kept a proper watch or taken avoiding action, nobody would be dead - or in prison. That he was more than likely drunk would disgust me.

 

[MystyBlue2]

This information comes from the survivor who gave testimony to the fact.

Ok fair play, I do apologise

 

[jordanbasset]

If I was capable of being objective I'd be feeling that the verdict was a hollow victory. If the skipper of James 2 had proper lights or insisted on lifejackets at night or kept a proper watch or taken avoiding action, nobody would be dead - or in prison. That he was more than likely drunk would disgust me.

and if David Marr, had kept a proper look out as he should have done and not made a whole series of mistakes/errors no one may well have died and he would not have ended up in prison
In reality the people in the smaller boat paid a much higher price for any mistakes they may have made than Marr did

 

[Achosenman]

Ok fair play, I do apologise

No problems. It's easy to miss a detail.

 

[Achosenman]

the people in the smaller boat paid a much higher price for any mistakes they may have made than Marr did

I don't think that's in dispute.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

and if David Marr, had kept a proper look out as he should have done and not made a whole series of mistakes/errors no one may well have died and he would not have ended up in prison
In reality the people in the smaller boat paid a much higher price for any mistakes they may have made than Marr did

I thought that his guilt was implied in my comment.

 

[penfold]

Its been about 40 years, since i went on a "night fishing expedition". For mackerel
We went on dark moonless nights, when low water was in the wee small hours, with no lights, dark clothing, on a dark boat, making great effort not to be seen.
Somebody was designated to keep a pretty damn good look out.
We might not actually have been fishing for mackerel. Although that was our story.

Were you having a sing-song? "Salmon-chanted Evening" perhaps?

For me, this has highlighted the need for proper regulation of marine activities, for both professional and leisure users. The sea is not a kindergarten and we should not treat it as such.

Given the man gaoled is a professional seafarer with qualifications and bits of paper that's a ropey argument; the UK does not require amateurs to be qualified yet suffers approximately the same level of marine casualties.

How is a 12month sentence for the loss of 3 lives harsh by any stretch of the imagination?

He will only do 6 months on good behaviour. Thats only enough time for him to reflect on what he's done, Come out, And wont take him long before hes back onboard another ship. Lets all hope that by xmas 2021 hes has a refresher course on seamanship and can keep other water users safe.

I'd do 3 years for burglary if i stole my neighbours bicycle from his shed!

Trust me for whats happened, 6 month jail time is getting off extremely lightly!

In Saudi Arabia perhaps; a first time bicycle thief has more chance of winning the lottery than of going to gaol, a fine and perhaps community service is far more likely.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Were you having a sing-song? "Salmon-chanted Evening" perhaps?


Given the man gaoled is a professional seafarer with qualifications and bits of paper that's a ropey argument; the UK does not require amateurs to be qualified yet suffers approximately the same level of marine casualties.

In Saudi Arabia perhaps; a first time bicycle thief has more chance of winning the lottery than of going to gaol, a fine and perhaps community service is far more likely.

Jeez its the principle. Ok i steal a bicycle, i recieve 200hrs community service £300 fine + court costs, compensation to the neighbour
, 18 months suspended sentance. So if i pee in a doorway i will do time.

However Marr's case 3 persons are dead and final verdict at court is 12 months (6 on good behaviour)?

Yeah the punishments suit the crimes? I think not.

Same as paedophiles get off lightly compared to small time drug dealers, Car theves, burgers, even 2 people fighting in the street.

A weed dealer will get 5 years but a nonce will get a fine, Relocated and therapy so he dont re offend, if you dont believe that you need to watch these vigilante paedophile chasers and watch how lightly they get off for gromming!

Total opposite ends of spectrum but if you compare cases online the facts are there and will surprise you.

Complete backwards way of punishment in the uk.

So to me, Marr got off lightly for the outcome of what happened.

6 months imprisonment will be enough time for him to retrain and walk out with a L2 in joinery...Lets hope he can control a jigsaw better than a boat.

 

[penfold]

The judicial system doesn't do principles, it has sentencing guidelines which magistrates/justices and judges do well to follow; principles are for politicians if they choose to follow them and write legislation accordingly. I'm glad the UK does not follow the "Hang them high" philosophy not least because of the cost, although the Home Sec and the scottish Justice Sec are leaning that way by the looks of things.

 

[MystyBlue2]

The judicial system doesn't do principles, it has sentencing guidelines which magistrates/justices and judges do well to follow; principles are for politicians if they choose to follow them and write legislation accordingly. I'm glad the UK does not follow the "Hang them high" philosophy not least because of the cost, although the Home Sec and the scottish Justice Sec are leaning that way by the looks of things.

Yeah this is why this country is a joke and has a massive crime rate. We need stricter justice system over here for ALL crimes.

I guarantee the crime rate would plummet and folk would be alot more switched on and better behaved if we adopted the justice system of Spain, India, Saudi etc.

 

[MystyBlue2]

If the sentencing guidelines in the UK are more lenient for a paedophile than that of a small time weed dealer for instance then that explains so much for this country and the folk running it.

 

[Sandy]

Yeah this is why this country is a joke and has a massive crime rate. We need stricter justice system over here for ALL crimes.

I guarantee the crime rate would plummet and folk would be alot more switched on and better behaved if we adopted the justice system of Spain, India, Saudi etc.

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

 

[MystyBlue2]

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?

Like what?

Compare crime rates of spain,India, USA etc to UK.

Then compare how strict the justice systems are.

Then compare jail times for them crimes.

Speaks volumes...

 

[Aardee]

Jeez its the principle. Ok i steal a bicycle, i recieve 200hrs community service £300 fine + court costs, compensation to the neighbour
, 18 months suspended sentance. So if i pee in a doorway i will do time.

However Marr's case 3 persons are dead and final verdict at court is 12 months (6 on good behaviour)?

Yeah the punishments suit the crimes? I think not.

Same as paedophiles get off lightly compared to small time drug dealers, Car theves, burgers, even 2 people fighting in the street.

A weed dealer will get 5 years but a nonce will get a fine, Relocated and therapy so he dont re offend, if you dont believe that you need to watch these vigilante paedophile chasers and watch how lightly they get off for gromming!

Total opposite ends of spectrum but if you compare cases online the facts are there and will surprise you.

Complete backwards way of punishment in the uk.

So to me, Marr got off lightly for the outcome of what happened.

6 months imprisonment will be enough time for him to retrain and walk out with a L2 in joinery...Lets hope he can control a jigsaw better than a boat.

It depends what you punish people for, the intent or the outcome. Someone fires a gun in a crowded street but doesn't hit anyone, there is a very clear intent to do harm but no real victims. Someone has a momentary lapse of concentration while driving and hits a pedestrian there's absolutely no intent to do harm but someone lost their life. Which is the greater crime and who poses the greatest threat in the future?

Yes, the trawler captain clearly failed to keep a proper lookout and because of that a tragic accident happened. He didn't set out to harm anyone, and the accident was eminently avoidable if the "victim" had taken action sooner. What good would be served by keeping him in jail for longer?

 

[MystyBlue2]

Yeah like showing a bannana wrapped in a sock in a bank will land you 15years imprisonment for armed robbery and not a shot was fired never mind anybody KILLED. But a known paedophile or terrorist will be fined, relocated and protected and looked after by the tax payers!

Makes no sence at all. Like i said if these are the GUIDELINES made by the guys at the top then there is alot to say about the folk making those guidelines, The result is a high crime country as nobody can take the justice system seriously never mind have faith in it or be scared of it.

Classic case - Tony Martin-

Thats the cherry on the cake.

But thats a complete different debate, il leave it at that.

 

[Achosenman]

Given the man gaoled is a professional seafarer with qualifications and bits of paper that's a ropey argument; the UK does not require amateurs to be qualified yet suffers approximately the same level of marine casualties.

IMO, if any argument is ropey it would be yours. I don't see too many week-end sailors out in the conditions the professionals go out in.

We as a country along with other nations of the world require a minimum standard of competency to operate vehicles, vessels and aircraft. In the case of vehicles and aircraft, we require competence and licences regardless of commercial status, yet somehow the maritime industry in the UK is exempt. It allows amateurs to get away with no training, no competency, no insurance, no safety. It sets no seaworthiness standards for the vessels used and they can carry passengers...as long as they don't pay.

The drunken (possibly) skipper of the James 2 placed his innocent passengers (friends) into a situation that cost 3 of them their lives and left one person in jail. Had both skippers been required to satisfy a level of competence required to operate aircraft or vehicles in the UK, the outcome might well have been 3 with a good story to tell and one in jail, or more likely a few choice words exchanged as they scooted out the way.

 

[Aardee]

Dan208 - Ignoring the random PIERS MORGAN capitals, do you actually have evidence of paedophiles and terrorists committing offences and walking away with a fine?

As for your armed robber with a banana in a sock, he set out with the intent to commit a robbery with the threat of extreme violence. The trawler skipper set out to catch fish, moan about the french and come home after an uneventful trip...