RYA's strategy for failure

[Boo2]

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ne...&utm_campaign=Yachts+and+Yachting+Online+news

Once again the RYA's strategy of doing nothing to endanger their future gongs and access to Government cocktail partys has led to them failing their members and failing in their supposed purpose.

With respect, I don't understand what you are going on about ? The RYA have argued a cogent case on our behalf and despite that (and despite also, EU law) the government is going ahead. Short of handing out machine guns and do-it-yourself barricade kits, what else could they do ?

If the RYA does not put our pov for us then who will ? And if they do it in a way which means we are ignored entirely then how does that benefit us ? They did all they could but were overruled, hats off to them I say.

Boo2

 

[rotrax]

I've looked into it thisafternoon and I should have known better. Anti Heathrow 3rd Runway protesters used Judicial Review very effectively but that was because there were judicial decisions to look at or more acurately quasi-judicial planning decisions. The RYA could certainly threaten to do this at a later date but not until someone is actually prosecuted and the feasibility of that would depend on exactly what the legislation says.

Turning to what the RYA can do; what they should do is admit the bleedingly obvious that their recent campaigns have failed and whilst they have increased participation they have utterly failed to increase media exposure putting all funding at risk.

Once they have accepted that their campaigns consistently fail they can enquire into why this is the case and look at best practice elsewhere.

If after all that they conclude that they can't improve then they can place themselves right up there with the RFU for sheer self serving delusion.

Hi Judders, are you a RYA member? If not your critisism is not appropriate, if you are speak to HQ at hamble.

 

[Tranona]

I've looked into it thisafternoon and I should have known better. Anti Heathrow 3rd Runway protesters used Judicial Review very effectively but that was because there were judicial decisions to look at or more acurately quasi-judicial planning decisions. The RYA could certainly threaten to do this at a later date but not until someone is actually prosecuted and the feasibility of that would depend on exactly what the legislation says.

Turning to what the RYA can do; what they should do is admit the bleedingly obvious that their recent campaigns have failed and whilst they have increased participation they have utterly failed to increase media exposure putting all funding at risk.

Once they have accepted that their campaigns consistently fail they can enquire into why this is the case and look at best practice elsewhere.

If after all that they conclude that they can't improve then they can place themselves right up there with the RFU for sheer self serving delusion.

Ah! We are getting somewhere at last! A Judicial Review is not appropriate. For a start the legislation and regulations are not yet in place. Secondly they will be perfectly legal when (and if) they are in place - that is what government does. A judicial review is only relevant if you believe officials have not acted fairly in accordance with the law - which is why they are common in such fields as planning and immigration etc. It may well be an appropriate course of action if the law comes in and officials sytematically (or indeed with respect to individuals) excedd their powers.

What is your basis for saying the RYA "Campaigns" have failed? Perhaps you could give examples and the criteria used to determine success or failure. Examples of funding that has been "put at risk" by their action (or inaction) would also be useful.

You mention practice elsewhere. Perhaps you can enlighten us on which organisations you have in mind and why you think they are more successful.

Anybody can sit on the sidelines decrying the efforts of others, but it is much more useful to make serious suggesions about how it might be done differently.

 

[oldharry]

RYA is deeply involved in a range of issues and as has been said above, they are not always very good at telling us what they are doing - often because by the nature of things there is nothing about present negotiations they can actually make public. When we started BORG 12 months ago, one of the first things we did was to look at the RYA response to the MCZ programme: it had a two line mention in the journal that month!

Once the facts about places like Studland started to become known in this parish, a number of people became quite angry that RYA was apparently just sitting on its hands 'doing nothing' about the perceived threat to our sport - just as Judders has now.

So being me, I wrote to Sarah Tresedur, RYA's CEO, giving links to your views on these pages, and asking for a meeting about the whole MCZ issue - which rather to our surprise, RYA welcomed.

12 months later in BORG I now find myself in rather the same boat as them - a great deal going on, but very little I can report on because we have no conclusions yet.

I strongly suspect Gus Lewis is in much the same position over the borders issue: he can not tell us more than he has about what RYA is actually doing at present because progress is 'behind closed doors'. But speaking in such strong terms in the report, it is clear that he is up against a pretty powerful political lobby who will not budge.

RYA is constantly watching new legislation to ensure it does not impinge unnecessarily on our boating freedoms - they are just not very good at telling us about it!

I do most strongly suggest if you are not happy, contact RYA, rather than just moan about it. If nothing else, I know people like Gus do actually like to keep in touch with the membership, and to know what we do actually think about the issues they are dealing with.

 

[Pye_End]

Whilst most here will share the frustraion of the recent information on e-borders, perhaps turning your anger on the deciscion makers rather than the pressure groups might be more appropriate.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I've looked into it thisafternoon and I should have known better. Anti Heathrow 3rd Runway protesters used Judicial Review very effectively but that was because there were judicial decisions to look at or more acurately quasi-judicial planning decisions. The RYA could certainly threaten to do this at a later date but not until someone is actually prosecuted and the feasibility of that would depend on exactly what the legislation says.

Turning to what the RYA can do; what they should do is admit the bleedingly obvious that their recent campaigns have failed and whilst they have increased participation they have utterly failed to increase media exposure putting all funding at risk.

Once they have accepted that their campaigns consistently fail they can enquire into why this is the case and look at best practice elsewhere.

If after all that they conclude that they can't improve then they can place themselves right up there with the RFU for sheer self serving delusion.

There is nothing substantial / useable in what you write - it's really just a moan about the governments decision on the basis that if the government doesnt do exactly what the RYA suggests then the RYA has failed.

The red diesel result is a good examp[le of RYA influence succeeding. EU law requires that leisure boaters buy taxed diesel and the original use of red was only ever a temporary derogation given to allow the UK to establish marine white diesel facilities. The government did sod all about the facilities and when the EU said it was going to cancel the deriogastion the govt was inclined just to accept the end of the derogation and force us to use white whether available or not. It was only in response to the RYA that the present 40/60 comptromise was agreed and that is at least a practical coimpromise.

Are you a member of the RYA? I'll bet you arent. If so, how can you justify moaning about a body which you dont support anyway?

 

[Tranona]

The red diesel result is a good examp[le of RYA influence succeeding.

Are you a member of the RYA? I'll bet you arent. If so, how can you justify moaning about a body which you dont support anyway?

Not entirely sure that the red diesel issue is a "success" - read the long threads on the difficulties the current fudge is creating for yachtsmen visiting Belgium and Holland. Whilst an example of seemingly successful lobbying, it was perhaps more to do with the threat of higher fuel prices on MOBO sales, and the extra costs to Marinas (both BMF sponsored) than yotties.

On the other hand, people forget the success in resisting the implementation of drink/boating, based on the evidence (or lack of), the lack of compulsory registration, driving licences, compulsory inspections, compulsory equipment requirements, annual usage taxes etc which our counterparts in other countries have to endure. All of which RYA has successfully campaigned against. Plus of course for those interested superb team performance in international sailing competitions, masterminded by the RYA (although mostly down to skills of individuals give the chance).

 

[timbartlett]

Not entirely sure that the red diesel issue is a "success" ...

I think it's easy to forget that the red diesel campaign was a success -- up to a point.

Yes the government eventually gave away the derogation, but the RYA's long-running campaign delayed the evil day by many years -- the UK's derogation was extended once to my certain knowledge, and I think there was another extension before that.

I don't know, offhand, how much difference it made to sailing boaters (my own boat, at the time, had a petrol outboard) but I worked out that to the average motor boater, the effect of extending the derogation once would have saved more than a lifetime's membership fees!

And yes, it may well have been the effect on the industry that persuaded the UK Gov't not to give up thederogation at the first time of asking: what's wrong with that? The RYA, BMIF and IWA all sa the loss of red diesel as a threat, and joined forces under the leadership of the RYA to fight it, using every reasonable argument they could find -- right down to things like the amount of money spent by recreational boaters in UK pubs and restaurants that would probably be taken abroad if they were priced out of boating.

 

[Tranona]

I think it's easy to forget that the red diesel campaign was a success -- up to a point.

Yes - but that is the point - it is only considered a success if the objective was to minimise the amount of the increase in duty to meet the requirements of the Directive. You may recall that not everybody was in favour of the campaign, arguing, maybe correctly that the EU intention was to ensure that only white diesel was used in leisure craft and that for most the financial impact was small - and of course, many forecast that the "fudge" would be challenged in the long run.

So, while it can be called a lobbying success, particularly from a BMF and IWA point of view, there are significant losers, even in the RYA membership.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I've looked into it thisafternoon and I should have known better. Anti Heathrow 3rd Runway protesters used Judicial Review very effectively but that was because there were judicial decisions to look at or more acurately quasi-judicial planning decisions. The RYA could certainly threaten to do this at a later date but not until someone is actually prosecuted and the feasibility of that would depend on exactly what the legislation says.

Turning to what the RYA can do; what they should do is admit the bleedingly obvious that their recent campaigns have failed and whilst they have increased participation they have utterly failed to increase media exposure putting all funding at risk.

Once they have accepted that their campaigns consistently fail they can enquire into why this is the case and look at best practice elsewhere.

If after all that they conclude that they can't improve then they can place themselves right up there with the RFU for sheer self serving delusion.

Judders, perhaps the main delusion is in what you expect the RYA to be able to do. The government does take the RYA lobbying seriously - its just that they don't always do what the RYA wants. However, the RYA does successfully lobby the government on a whole variety of matters - including constantly watching for any attempts to regulate the world of boating and sailing more than it is in the UK at the moment.

Exactly how are you measuring success and failure in the context of your criticism of the RYA?

As others have said, outline some SPECIFIC issues and appropriate lobbying methods that you suggest might achieve more than what is achieved at the moment. Otherwise you appear to have a large chip on your shoulder about the RYA, and are using any excuse to sound off against our national organisation.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I'm not a member of the RYA, I perhaps should be.
I can therefore have no complaint about anything they do or do not achieve for the benefit of cruising sailors.

Can someone enlighten me as to those possible benefits for a cruising sailor in joining the RYA?
thanks
S.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Can someone enlighten me as to those possible benefits for a cruising sailor in joining the RYA?
thanks
S.

Not me. But take a look at http://www.cruising.org.uk/about/membership

(yes, I'm a member, along with almost 4000 others)

 

[jamesjermain]

Turning to what the RYA can do; what they should do is admit the bleedingly obvious that their recent campaigns have failed and whilst they have increased participation they have utterly failed to increase media exposure putting all funding at risk.

Once they have accepted that their campaigns consistently fail they can enquire into why this is the case and look at best practice elsewhere.

If after all that they conclude that they can't improve then they can place themselves right up there with the RFU for sheer self serving delusion.

I would point to two campaigns which have been phenominally successful and have generated a lot of publicity although mainly at local level.

One is the OnBoard scheme which encourages young people to try sailing and is very active in schools and youth groups. This has brought many families to the sport who have subsequently become active members of local clubs.

Team15 has been running for many years and has boosted the number of young people taking up windsurfing.

In other areas British success at recent Olympic and World regattas has considerably raised the profile of sailing at the elite level. The Green Blue partnership has beaten organisations such as Wembley, Wimbledon the O2 stadium and all other sailing organisations in drawing up a fully certified Sustainable Event Management System which will be in place for the Olympic Games and is being used as a template by many other organisations.

The RYA also had a high profile at the Autmn Political Party Conferences at each of which it had a stand manned by lobbyists.

The trouble is, much of the RYA's work away from the Olympics is not very sexy and news coverage tends to be local.

For a single sporting organisation to block or change a major piece of Government legislation is always going to be an uphill struggle but there are many areas where the RYA has had a modifying influence.

It must also be realised that the membership of the RYA is a broad church and on matters such as eBoarders, cheap diesel, renewable energy and environmental impact versus free navigation, the membership is often divided so the secretariat is in a no-win situation; damned from one side or the other if it takes a stance and from both if it does nothing.

 

[Poignard]

I'm not a member of the RYA, I perhaps should be.
I can therefore have no complaint about anything they do or do not achieve for the benefit of cruising sailors.

Can someone enlighten me as to those possible benefits for a cruising sailor in joining the RYA?
thanks
S.

Ask not what the RYA can do for you,
ask what you can do for the RYA.

 

[jamesjermain]

I'm not a member of the RYA, I perhaps should be.
I can therefore have no complaint about anything they do or do not achieve for the benefit of cruising sailors.

Can someone enlighten me as to those possible benefits for a cruising sailor in joining the RYA?
thanks
S.

It's not an easy question to answer. Look on the RYA website for an idea of the breadth of its activities from canals to offshore powerboat racing, from windsurfers to Ocean Yachtmasters tyo see why the organisation (or one like it) has to exist

My personal view is that the RYA does a lot of essential work which someone has to pay for and I would rather it was me than the government. As a member I have access to a wide range of member benefits from cheap(er) Volvo cars to discounted books and RYA courses. The havens of peace that are the RYA lounges at the Southampton and London boat shows are worth the fee on their own.

The bottom line is that you are unlikely to make a financial profit out of RYA membership but you will, in a small way, be helping to preserve the sport/pastime we love and save it from invasive legislation and control.

 

[Tranona]

I'm not a member of the RYA, I perhaps should be.
I can therefore have no complaint about anything they do or do not achieve for the benefit of cruising sailors.

Can someone enlighten me as to those possible benefits for a cruising sailor in joining the RYA?
thanks
S.

Really depends on your attitude. There are direct financial benefits, "free" ICC worth about £8 a year, reduced insurance premiums, reduced marina charges (for example the discount in some marinas in Greece were worth more than twice the annual subscription), discounts on publications and 4 issues a year magazine. Of course, not everybody can take advantage of these, but they are there.

Next set of benefits are more difficult to value, such as legal advice on a range of boating related issues.

Finally the support in representing boating interests, particularly to government, where collective action and pressure is arguably more effective than individual.

Of course the last set of benefits are the most difficult to value, and are actually available even if you are not a member, but on the other hand are the ones that are perhaps the most costly. However, the paid for services and products generate surpluses which can be used for other activities.

If you are into water based competition then there are many other benefits. You can also benefit from the RYA training programmes and certification - although you don't need to be a member to access these.

Compared with most boating related costs subscription is not a lot of money for an individual but collectively it helps give a "voice" to boating people.

On the other hand, you might find as Ken suggests the CA more appropriate, particularly if you cruise outside the UK as there are potentially more concrete individual benefits.

 

[jamesjermain]

Judders, I must admit to being rather surprised and warmed by the track that this tread has taken. I fully expected your original post to be followed by a blizzard of anti-RYA scorn as the organisation has not been universally popular in the past.

I wonder if you feel the same? It seems there is a wider understanding of the RYA's role, achievements and difficulties than I thought. I am a long standing member of the Association and also a part time freelance worker for it so my views might be regarded as tainted. There are areas where the RYA could improve, not least in blowing it's own trumpet, but on this occasion I think you chose the wrong target.

 

[haydude]

The problem is not so much with the RYA which is just an association without legislative or administrative powers. The problem is with the goverment representing the people who elected them.

 

[Judders]

Judders, I must admit to being rather surprised and warmed by the track that this tread has taken. I fully expected your original post to be followed by a blizzard of anti-RYA scorn as the organisation has not been universally popular in the past.

I wonder if you feel the same?

JJ, I am a little surprised but I have certainly learned some new things. I've no intention of answering every post above, especially those written by people who clearly have not read what I've said before they've slated it ("those who dont read have no advantage over those who can't" - Mark Twain).

Suffice to say it is pleasing that some people are satisfied with the work of the RYA. They certainly compare well with the RFU. I maintain that the RYA are politically naieve and having re-read the press releases all the way through about e-boarders, it is clear that the strategy was doomed to fail; but I am now motivated to offer to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

The lack of profile of sailing is the RYAs responsibility. If they are trying to raise the profile of sailing in the media then it is unarguable that they are failing.3