RYA's strategy for failure

[Judders]

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ne...&utm_campaign=Yachts+and+Yachting+Online+news

Once again the RYA's strategy of doing nothing to endanger their future gongs and access to Government cocktail partys has led to them failing their members and failing in their supposed purpose.

All through this process the "we need to be inside the negotiations and not be antagonistic" has sounded hollow and that is exactly what it turned out to be.

When will they ever actually get around to promoting the interests of sailors and sailing?

 

[Sandy]

Sounds very much like what you do when flying accross borders in a small aircraft; I have no problem with that.

 

[Tranona]

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ne...&utm_campaign=Yachts+and+Yachting+Online+news

Once again the RYA's strategy of doing nothing to endanger their future gongs and access to Government cocktail partys has led to them failing their members and failing in their supposed purpose.

All through this process the "we need to be inside the negotiations and not be antagonistic" has sounded hollow and that is exactly what it turned out to be.

When will they ever actually get around to promoting the interests of sailors and sailing?

So, what do you suggest they do different from what they are doing now?

 

[jamesjermain]

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ne...&utm_campaign=Yachts+and+Yachting+Online+news

Once again the RYA's strategy of doing nothing to endanger their future gongs and access to Government cocktail partys has led to them failing their members and failing in their supposed purpose.

All through this process the "we need to be inside the negotiations and not be antagonistic" has sounded hollow and that is exactly what it turned out to be.

When will they ever actually get around to promoting the interests of sailors and sailing?

Judders I'm not entirely clear from where you get the idea that the RYA has not been promoting the interests of sailors. Do you have access to documents? Were you on the committees? I haven't and wasn't so if there is more information to be had I would like to hear it. From what RYA managers have said to me they have but the case against e-Borders robustly on a number of occasions. The fact that the government may be planning to ignore them doesn't necessarily mean the RYA is deliberately misleading us.

I only seek clarification

 

[Searush]

Your link seems to be a pretty damning comment on the practicality & cost-effectiveness of the e-borders scheme. Sadly our Govt is choosing to ignore the problems. Now what?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Your link seems to be a pretty damning comment on the practicality & cost-effectiveness of the e-borders scheme. Sadly our Govt is choosing to ignore the problems. Now what?

As always, talk to your MP if he/she is from the coalition side. They're feeling more than somewhat vulnerable and do respond to pressure sometimes, especially if the cost/productivity case looks dubious. Expressions like "waste of valuable resources", "poor value for money in times of austerity", etc, seem to press the right buttons.

 

[Poignard]

The interests of a few fat-cat yachtsmen versus new measures intended to deal with the perceived threat of our borders being breached by illegal immigrants and terrorists.

The RYA has no 'clout' and I doubt there is much public sympathy for the plight of yachtsmen.

Best the RYA can do is to try and use any influence it has via the 'old boy' network or, as TK suggests, write to your MP, or mine, who is a yachtsman (Richard Ottaway, MP)

 

[Judders]

Judders I'm not entirely clear from where you get the idea that the RYA has not been promoting the interests of sailors...

I only seek clarification

JJ, my impression is that they have certainly not successfully promoted the interests of sailors and have consistently fallen short on every campaign. Throughout this one the press releases felt like being fobbed off and it was pretty much the same with Red Diesel.

If the RYA are trying to raise the media profile of sailing then it is an abject failure and if they are not they certainly should be.

Given that this is a case of over turning centuries of tradition and common rights, I would suggest there are grounds for a judicial review.

I do not need to tell the state where I am sailing to. This is not North Korea.

 

[Gwylan]

e borders

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ne...&utm_campaign=Yachts+and+Yachting+Online+news

Once again the RYA's strategy of doing nothing to endanger their future gongs and access to Government cocktail partys has led to them failing their members and failing in their supposed purpose.

All through this process the "we need to be inside the negotiations and not be antagonistic" has sounded hollow and that is exactly what it turned out to be.

When will they ever actually get around to promoting the interests of sailors and sailing?

I followed the link and read the RYA release - this seems to not offer any idea of what exactly the authorities are expecting from recreational boaters.
Also wonder what the authorities will do about the small fishing boats that wander out into the Channel do a bit of fishing and wander back again.

Can anyone indicate what the Borders Agency are expecting us to do?

 

[rallyveteran]

Gus Lewis is quoted by Louise Nicholls as saying:

“The Government has yet to publish a comprehensive explanation of how the e-Borders scheme will in practice be rolled out in the recreational boating sector but we understand that it will be based on a system of self-reporting voyages to and from the UK via a dedicated website up to 24 hours prior to departure.”

I think he means more than 24 hours prior to departure.

However I'm pleased to see that he concludes:

“If the e-Borders programme is to be implemented in the recreational boating sector then in our view the most appropriate, proportionate and cost-effective solution would be for only those persons who are not UK or EU citizens and who are on voyages outside the common travel area to be subject to a requirement to provide their details to the UKBA”

The large majority of recreational boating trips in and out of the UK consist of the same crew entirely composed of UK or EU residents going both ways. I can't see why the Government cares about such journeys. Furthermore, the latest view from Europe was that these individuals have the right to cross EU internal borders without advance reporting. Mr Lewis's line seems to be a good one we should all put to our MPs. I certainly will.

 

[Tranona]

JJ, my impression is that they have certainly not successfully promoted the interests of sailors and have consistently fallen short on every campaign. Throughout this one the press releases felt like being fobbed off and it was pretty much the same with Red Diesel.

If the RYA are trying to raise the media profile of sailing then it is an abject failure and if they are not they certainly should be.

Given that this is a case of over turning centuries of tradition and common rights, I would suggest there are grounds for a judicial review.

I do not need to tell the state where I am sailing to. This is not North Korea.

Answer the question - What would you do that is different if you were the RYA?

Unsupported waffle like this does not mean anything - just your personal opinion.

If you think there are grounds for a judicial review (of what? - actions of RYA or decision by a lawful government?) then go ahead and ask for one.

 

[Judders]

Answer the question - What would you do that is different if you were the RYA?

Unsupported waffle like this does not mean anything - just your personal opinion.

If you think there are grounds for a judicial review (of what? - actions of RYA or decision by a lawful government?) then go ahead and ask for one.

Oh get back in your box. I dont know what I've done to upset you but chasing every post with an ignorant response that contradicts itself is childish in the extreme.

I've answered the question and you have commented on the answer so what is your point exactly?

My point is that the RYA should be leading on this sort of thing and that there is more that they can do, both on this issue and others.

 

[Boat44]

At the end of the day we are a minority in this; against a government (like all governments) that are ignorant and completely and utterly out of touch from reality. Whatever the RYA does they will be ignored.

At the end of the day we (ie people with common sense) know it wont work, isn’t enforceable and will not do anything to protect our borders.

I just await the next announcement from the government stating they will be charging us an “administration fee” to log our details.

 

[Tranona]

I've answered the question and you have commented on the answer so what is your point exactly?

My point is that the RYA should be leading on this sort of thing and that there is more that they can do, both on this issue and others.

Please show me where you have answered the question.

Just saying "more should be done" is not an answer - it is just a slogan.

You have not upset me - you make a statement that seems meaningless, so I am just curious as what what you actually mean - if anything.

So, I am interested in hearing what your proposals are for a course of action that might lead to a different outcome (on this and "other issues").

 

[fireball]

When will they ever actually get around to promoting the interests of sailors and sailing?

Actually I think that they do - in the main - try to promote the interests of the leisure sailor.
They (the RYA) are not always very good a publicising what (non-racing activities) they are doing.
Solutions to problems are not always clear-cut - and it can take time to reverse the thinking of some government body.

Clearly, your average leisure boater will comply with whatever law is passed - be it increased duty on marine fuel, no-anchor spots in specific areas or registering a trip abroad - but it's not always welcome or convenient.

Clearly, registering for a x-channel jaunt is going to be a PITA for anyone who likes to operate on the spur of the moment - it will become a restriction for some if you must register a foreign trip more than 24hrs before departure - but what are the government trying to achieve by making us register?
I would guess they are trying to make it easier for the UKBA to target suspicious vessels through data interrogation.... So, in order to prevent eBoarders coming in in it's present form, the RYA would either need to convince them that it would be cost prohibitive or provide a better solution.
Considering data processing is cheap these days, analysing leisure boat movements is quick and relatively straight forward and will not cost the earth. Although being a government project it will cost 5 or 6 times the amount it should really cost!

 

[prv]

I would guess they are trying to make it easier for the UKBA to target suspicious vessels through data interrogation

Which is bonkers, because why would Mr Smuggler (of booze, drugs, people, or rocket-launchers) go and enter suspicious data about himself in the first place?

Depending on which gets better results, he's going to either enter nothing at all, or register as a nice wholesome sailing family going on holiday. Yes, he can still be found, but not by looking at the recorded data, so what's the point of that part?

I don't like the men in black RIBs, but I can at least see that they have some chance of achieving their aims.

Pete

 

[fireball]

Which is bonkers, because why would Mr Smuggler (of booze, drugs, people, or rocket-launchers) go and enter suspicious data about himself in the first place?

a) Mr Smuggler is either going to enter data - in which case the UKBA need to be able to indentify it as a suspicious vessel - either by tipoff or by analysing the data for pattens ..

Or b) Mr Smuggler isn't going to enter data - in which case UKBA are more likely to intercept ...

a) is more likely - so it's going to be interpreting the data to find the bogus ones ...

 

[Judders]

I've looked into it thisafternoon and I should have known better. Anti Heathrow 3rd Runway protesters used Judicial Review very effectively but that was because there were judicial decisions to look at or more acurately quasi-judicial planning decisions. The RYA could certainly threaten to do this at a later date but not until someone is actually prosecuted and the feasibility of that would depend on exactly what the legislation says.

Turning to what the RYA can do; what they should do is admit the bleedingly obvious that their recent campaigns have failed and whilst they have increased participation they have utterly failed to increase media exposure putting all funding at risk.

Once they have accepted that their campaigns consistently fail they can enquire into why this is the case and look at best practice elsewhere.

If after all that they conclude that they can't improve then they can place themselves right up there with the RFU for sheer self serving delusion.

 

[Twister_Ken]

If after all that they conclude that they can't improve then they can place themselves right up there with the RFU for sheer self serving delusion.

It's not fair comparing the RYA and the RFU. The RYA have much nicer blazers.

 

[Poignard]

It's not fair comparing the RYA and the RFU. The RYA have much nicer blazers.

And, as far as I am aware, their members don't throw dwarves around.