alant
Well-Known Member
Well has advantage of 1 kn, so still has steerage & ability to ferry glide.
RYA to scrap tidal/non-tidal distinction
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Well has advantage of 1 kn, so still has steerage & ability to ferry glide.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>I imagine on a practical level this will result in a boost for med-based centres, while removing the advantage from (eg) Gib-based schools.
The straits of Gibralter are one of the places that need serious planning to go through it. Tides can be 5 knots plus which doesn't seem much but you get strong winds from the west or east and wind over tide which create large seas and makes progress upwind really difficult. The worst wind is the Levant from the east. You have to wait until the tide and wind are in the same direction and that can be a wait of a week or more, as we found out. As such it's the perfect place to do a course you will learn much because sailing courses can't wait for the right conditions so the sailing is likely to be really tough. The rest of the Med is usually girly sailing or motoring until a gale comes along, doing a course there would be utterly boring.
The straits of Gibralter are one of the places that need serious planning to go through it. Tides can be 5 knots plus which doesn't seem much but you get strong winds from the west or east and wind over tide which create large seas and makes progress upwind really difficult. The worst wind is the Levant from the east. You have to wait until the tide and wind are in the same direction and that can be a wait of a week or more, as we found out. As such it's the perfect place to do a course you will learn much because sailing courses can't wait for the right conditions so the sailing is likely to be really tough. The rest of the Med is usually girly sailing or motoring until a gale comes along, doing a course there would be utterly boring.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Why does the story of the two American sailors who bought a boat in Norway and were planning to sail it to the US of A come to mind. I am not sure if they would agree that having tidal experience, theory and practical. was a biggie.
Ceirwan
Well-Known Member
The Yachtmaster is dying as a commercial qualification anyway and I don't think this is going to help.
I find it quite that funny that some people think its easier in tidal areas than non tidal. Sure 'some' maneuvers can be easier (if you know what your doing, which non-tidal sailors probably wouldn't), but dealing with a rise and fall, dealing with tidal steams drying heights etc. Are all things anyone should be able to do, and if you want the ticket you should have demonstrated this.
I find it quite that funny that some people think its easier in tidal areas than non tidal. Sure 'some' maneuvers can be easier (if you know what your doing, which non-tidal sailors probably wouldn't), but dealing with a rise and fall, dealing with tidal steams drying heights etc. Are all things anyone should be able to do, and if you want the ticket you should have demonstrated this.
NormanB
Well-Known Member
Well no qualification alone gives experience and wisdom.
However those who seek out formal training are interested in doing better than leaving it to chance. I figure those senior American chaps thought they knew it all and had not sought out any training be that tidal or otherwise.
If you have half a brain you can learn all about tides from books too.��
alant
Well-Known Member
Well, you can learn the theory.
Ocean Adventures
New Member
Have to experience tides to understand tides. Course to steer and tidel heights are a science, can be learnt with books.
Close boat handling in tides and wind have to be experienced to appreciate. And learn to compensate. Rather than a science, is an art.
NormanB
Well-Known Member
I totally agree but remember we all had a first time when we had zero experience and then after surviving practical exposure - we became more 'experienced'.
TallBuoy
Well-Known Member
Its not going to make the slightest bit of difference to the YM qualification because there is no distinction between Tidal and Non-Tidal at that level.
All the change is going to do is bring the Day Skipper into line, by removing the non-Tidal (easy) option.
Ceirwan
Well-Known Member
My mistake, I meant coastal skipper, which I believe is still a certificate of competence and can then be used commercially?
Surely removing the non-tidal option will mean lots of schools operating in non tidal waters would have to relocate?
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of people jumping to a lot of wrong conclusions in this thread.
One or two have got the right idea.
The only thing that's changing in effect is the Day Skipper ticket. (Contrary to what seems to be implied by some the DS can be commercially endorsed.)
For YM Coastal and YM offshore at least 50% of the qualifying miles needs to be in tidal waters. You can soon tell if someone really has that experience. When I conduct exams I nearly always give the candidate some tidal calcs to do. (Standard port and secondary port based.)
I don't speak for the RYA but as an examiner and instructor I have to administer some of this stuff and I don't see it making a whole lot of difference in real life.
The idea that the YM ticket (Coastal or Offshore) is reducing in popularity or going out of fashion is a joke. I could be examining candidates almost every day (only a slight exaggeration) and 99% are for commercial endorsement to work in the yachting industry (or some in the fish farming industry!)
One or two have got the right idea.
The only thing that's changing in effect is the Day Skipper ticket. (Contrary to what seems to be implied by some the DS can be commercially endorsed.)
For YM Coastal and YM offshore at least 50% of the qualifying miles needs to be in tidal waters. You can soon tell if someone really has that experience. When I conduct exams I nearly always give the candidate some tidal calcs to do. (Standard port and secondary port based.)
I don't speak for the RYA but as an examiner and instructor I have to administer some of this stuff and I don't see it making a whole lot of difference in real life.
The idea that the YM ticket (Coastal or Offshore) is reducing in popularity or going out of fashion is a joke. I could be examining candidates almost every day (only a slight exaggeration) and 99% are for commercial endorsement to work in the yachting industry (or some in the fish farming industry!)
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
No it won't. It means they will continue to run DS courses and issue a Day Skipper ticket as normal. It won't have 'Non tidal' on it.
Ceirwan
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying its getting less popular, simply that it is becoming less accepted in some commercial areas.
I was skippering a wind farm crew vessel for around 2 and half years on my commercial Yachtmaster. Last year I sat the MCA Orals to upgrade to Master 200 coded vessel / OOW 500. The reason being that our industry at least is moving away from the YM commercial and in the future they're wanting people to have the 200 ticket.
I was replying to the guy saying they were removing the tidal easy option (his words) and there will just be dayskipper.
My point was if doing non-tidal was easy it means you can just do the ticket in non-tidal waters and be covered for tidal areas. Seems a bit silly, obviously in the past they felt there was a distinction.
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Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Do it all the time & very rarely use the internet for anything other than weather.
Plusi f I did not adjust Walton for Bradwell I would spend even more time on the mud in the creek than i do now
TangaraToo
RIP
Powerboat Level 1 & 2 etc are also affected.
I did my PBL2 at an inland sailing club. When I booked my DS practical recently I asked about getting my PBL2 upgraded to tidal. Told I didn't need to as RYA were dropping the tidal /not tidal split for these.
Not too sure I'm happy with that. Handling a rib at speed in flat waters is very different to one in wind over tide situation.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
You a quite right. My apologies. I hold PB2 and I should have remembered.
The Med can get quite choppy and I'm not sure wind over tide (which of course adds to the waves and the steepness of the wave on the windward side) makes that much difference? You can learn in flat calm tidal waters but you still have to gain experience of different conditions. PB2 is daylight only in familiar waters if I remember correctly and it's still only designated as an introductory course so tides or not doesn't make that much difference?
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Half of the qualifying miles for Yachtmaster Coastal and Offshore must be in tidal waters. No change.
shan
Well-Known Member
If you can do the calculation, you can plot a course and follow it. We have sailed in waters that are extremely tidal as well as those which, have insignificant tidal movement and frankly, it's not that hard. Making certain people know how to plot a course taking tidal movement into consideration can only be a good thing.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Thing is , many tidal sailing schools have so little tide it can be safely ignore, so this change really doesn't make much difference.
shan
Well-Known Member
You don't need to be in a tidal area to be set exercises for tidal areas. The practical is not rocket science, it's about knowing how to do the calculations and plot a course. I have sailed extensively out of Cardiff and Swansea as well as in Gibraltor, Turkey & Thailand and whether sailing in Thailand or out of Cardiff, it doesn't change the fact that I can plot a course with tides because I am well versed in the theory and the calculations.