RYA to scrap tidal/non-tidal distinction

As I understand it, Tidal Stream Atlas information is mostly based on very old data. A 20 or 30 year old book will give the same info as a new book. Suspect quite a lot of the data is actually very inaccurate now but we all still use it anyway. A bit like Variation noted on Charts, apparently Mother Earth is no longer complying with the yearly change info.
 
Sailing is like flying or diving - if you learn somewhere easy (Med, Gib, Canary Is) you're going to get a bit of a shock when you go north (e.g. W Scotland, Faeroe Islands), in terms of tide and weather. But then you might have no plans to sail outside the Med anyway (just as I have no plans to go to the Arctic Circle).

This decision gets rid of the very narrow distinction which allowed schools to say they were 'tidal' when by a lot of people's standards there was b$gger-all tide.

Main thing is though, don't assume you that because you've 'passed' the course you can handle tougher conditions than you've been in before. There is no substitute for experience - never be blinded by your own qualification. I've met Yachtmasters who barely understood how to change a sail (they were quite good at giving orders) but their level of confidence in their own ability was truly frightening.
 
mainsail1 said:
As I understand it, Tidal Stream Atlas information is mostly based on very old data. A 20 or 30 year old book will give the same info as a new book. Suspect quite a lot of the data is actually very inaccurate now but we all still use it anyway. A bit like Variation noted on Charts, apparently Mother Earth is no longer complying with the yearly change info.
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Very old data? Maybe for some places, I can assure you that the French SHOM TSA's I've been using are bang up to date (and very detailed and well designed as well). Not wanting to sound disloyal, but dare I say it SHOM beats the UK in this minor respect...
 
+1 for French tidal atlases being good. I regularly go over to St Malo and find the tidal stream predictions pretty much spot on.
Regarding this change in the RYA day skipper practical, that you will be able to do it in a non-tidal area and it will be the same, this is a retrograde step. Probably based on commercial considerations rather than anything else. Perhaps you will eventually be able to do a non-tidal Yachtmaster exam. Maybe just on line (now I am being cynical)
 
mainsail1 said:
As I understand it, Tidal Stream Atlas information is mostly based on very old data. A 20 or 30 year old book will give the same info as a new book. Suspect quite a lot of the data is actually very inaccurate now but we all still use it anyway.
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I think data is being taken constantly if the number of recording buoys that I come across is anything to go by.
 
Surely the data can be as fresh as yesterdays, but if you dont know what to do with it, or cant interpret it, its useless.
 
Not sure if people are getting the wrong end of the stick here.

They are binning the non tidal qualification that's all. It means anyone doing Day Skipper can/will be tested on tides. Of course in non tidal areas there will not be a practical demonstration of boat handling in a tidal stream - but that is no biggie IMHO.
 
NormanB said:
Not sure if people are getting the wrong end of the stick here.

They are binning the non tidal qualification that's all. It means anyone doing Day Skipper can/will be tested on tides. Of course in non tidal areas there will not be a practical demonstration of boat handling in a tidal stream - but that is no biggie IMHO.
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Yes, but we all did it at night school, in theory, but until you experience a 3 of 4 knt tide it is just that theory.
 
Lyndsey Doyle said:
Hi there, I will rise to the bait... it's very much not a classroom exercise here in Brittany! I don't use the internet for any passage planning input except the weather, all the rest is on paper, using paper TSA's and almanacs, paper charts, paper pilot books and paper notes.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'the current atlas', tidal stream atlases aren't 'current', and don't normally go out of date.

Vols 2-8 of what? Doesn't ring a bell but sounds intriguing.

I don't know about Day Skipper, but YM Coastal/Offshore definitely include secondary ports.

I think the RYA changes are intended to make sure that everyone doing any course is taught about, and tested on, tides... personally I think that's a great idea.

I'm presuming that until now, courses in non-tidal places (basically the Med) just pretended tides didn't exist! Which is a quite bizarre notion to some of us, but makes sense in a way if you never leave the Med I suppose.
Interesting thread, enjoy the sun, LD


As an aside, are there actually any TSA's which DO go out of date regularly?
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Well yes you got me on "current" its tidal stream.

Just for info. :) I suspect they are a bit above and beyond the expectation of a day skipper. Ocean YM probably? Of Shore?
The BA tide tables come in 8 volumes. (Was only 6 till just recently.)
Volume 1 would be the UK Ireland and Chanel to Britany
Volume 2 NW Atlantic, Rest Of N Sea Baltic, Artic. ( 7&8 are new 7 SW Atlantic 8 Britany to Med & SE Atlantic)
3 Most Of Indian Ocean West Side.
4 S Pacific & Australia
5 SE Asia
6 N Pacific.
Its been a while since I have used them. Me recollection there is a bit of a difference in the method for calculating a secondary port with Between Vol 1 and the rest.
The biggest differences being the No of secondary ports based of relatively few standard ports.

Any one using tide tables in any area which is not in the UK or Channel. Could only learn UK tables by class room.
The general principles are the same. Although the principle are generally the same not all tide tables use the same methods
Local tide tables are probably better for most area which are not the UK. If you have them and can read them.

As far as I know TSA do not go out of date but may be updated with new editions.
For the most part I have found them to be quite accurate. bearing in mind weather can have an influence.
Tide Diamonds usually are more specific. where they work.

I am impressed some people go to all the bother of figuring out secondary ports, I rarely do.
 
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