RYA Survey To Shape Future Direction

[flaming]

Well if they don't discriminate and have no future intention to discriminate they don't need to know. If they think training centres/clubs/race organisers discriminate they need to address questions to them, not to participants. (Interestingly, they didn't ask in the questionnaire if I'd ever seen discrimination in sailing and if you they were worried about discrimination that would be a very useful question to ask.)

Good grief...

No, if you want to find out if there is a discrimination issue you don't ask the clubs, who will all say "what us, discriminate? Don't be silly old boy..." Discrimination in 2025 is rarely as overt as the hideous racism of the past, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. To find out what's going on you need to ask the participants, and ideally those who are not participants for those reasons. Though that is understandably very difficult to do... But you can learn a lot from finding out what sort of people currently do a pastime and if your participant makeup is not representative of the population at large, then this points towards a potential issue.

 

[Mark-1]

Because lots of cruisers want to learn from experienced and highly qualified instructors....

That's a fair point. I'd forgotten there are people who like doing courses.

 

[Mark-1]

Good grief...

No, if you want to find out if there is a discrimination issue you don't ask the clubs, who will all say "what us, discriminate? Don't be silly old boy..." Discrimination in 2025 is rarely as overt as the hideous racism of the past, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. To find out what's going on you need to ask the participants, and ideally those who are not participants for those reasons. Though that is understandably very difficult to do... But you can learn a lot from finding out what sort of people currently do a pastime and if your participant makeup is not representative of the population at large, then this points towards a potential issue.

I said this:

I must confess I declined all of those questions. Sailing should be open for all and totally blind to sex and colour.

The first sentence is factually correct. The second is my opinion. I wasn't expecting it to be controversial, I'm going to leave it at that. Fair winds.

 

[ylop]

Well if they don't discriminate and have no future intention to discriminate they don't need to know.

You are making the common mistake of assuming that organisations and individuals only discriminate intentionally.

If they think training centres/clubs/race organisers discriminate they need to address questions to them, not to participants.

Step 1 is to identify the existing demographics - and see if there are areas of surprising disparity; then you can look at why. But asking a club if they discriminate is in 99% of cases going to get a no. Showing the same club that their stats are out of kilter with either the population in general or the sport in general might - assuming the club leadership is not of the “how dare you even suggest we might have unconscious bias or market ourselves in a way that is unwelcoming” get a more useful response.

(Interestingly, they didn't ask in the questionnaire if I'd ever seen discrimination in sailing and if you they were worried about discrimination that would be a very useful question to ask.)

But the questionnaire isn’t specifically looking at discrimination is it? I mean even if your organisation was perfect if you survey all you members but the survey data comes back with a bias you might need to know that so you understand how to treat the data and any conclusions you would draw.

I think the very fact that when people get asked these sort of questions and a group of them (mostly old white men*) get angry about it, suggests there might be some underlying bias!

* go on, prove to me that the people who are offended by being asked this question are not predominantly this demographic!

 

[flaming]

The first sentence is factually correct. The second is my opinion. I wasn't expecting it to be controversial, I'm going to leave it at that. Fair winds.

It isn't at all controversial. But if you really believe it, then it's an odd position to then take that discovering if it's true is somehow not necessary or intrusive.

 

[Mark-1]

It’s like a governing body would have to manage different interests, agendas and priorities.

Then we're broadly in agreement. If you're speaking for professionals and multiple sports that happen to take place on water then inevitably there will be conflicts of interest.

 

[ylop]

Then we're broadly in agreement. If you're speaking for professionals and multiple sports that happen to take place on water then inevitably there will be conflicts of interest.

No there will be conflicting interests, not necessarily conflicts of interest.

 

[flaming]

I think the very fact that when people get asked these sort of questions and a group of them (mostly old white men*) get angry about it, suggests there might be some underlying bias!

* go on, prove to me that the people who are offended by being asked this question are not predominantly this demographic!

Exactly this. Spot on.

 

[Mark-1]

But the questionnaire isn’t specifically looking at discrimination is it?

I didn't say it was, someone else introduced that idea, and I was responding to them. I had no idea why they asked. Someone else suggested it might help get Government funding.

Anyway, it seemed totally irrelevant to me and they gave me to option to duck the questions, so I did.

 

[ylop]

Anyway, it seemed totally irrelevant to me and they gave me to option to duck the questions, so I did.

I’m sure they will be tracking the % of people who refuse these questions because that in itself is useful information (either about how the question is presented or how people perceive being asked). The weird thing is in 2025 the RYA are far from the only people to ask such questions - so he idea that people are still getting angsty about being asked is odd.

 

[benjenbav]

Reflection’s On Water Survey

I didn’t get much beyond the greengrocer’s apostrophe.

Literally. I couldn’t answer the first question - asking which of a number of activities I had participated in recently - because there was no option to answer “none of the above”.

And yet, as a longstanding Gold Member, I feel vaguely that the RYA - whilst imperfect - would be missed by many were it to close its doors.

 

[Egret]

Maybe the survey questions are a bit too general, and as you say, quite a few families will have a cruiser, a few sailing dinghies, some windsurfers, paddleboards and a foiler-

What questions would you ask?

Currently Less class racing - more sailing in club boats.

Very few ski boats loaded up with the whole family including grannies and babies now .

When you are sailing, you are totally focussed, winds, tides, mud banks. other boats, so switch off the outside world - good for clearing the mind and good for fitness and balance.

A focus needs to be on people who have given up and ask why?

Numbers of people probably similar but the types of boats and activities have changed - less cruisers and class racing, more paddleboards - not sure if the survey picks that up.

Maybe focus on the paddleboarders and encourage them to be boating people for life.

 

[benjenbav]

Maybe the survey questions are a bit too general, and as you say, quite a few families will have a cruiser, a few sailing dinghies, some windsurfers and a foiler- what would you ask?

‘Are we wonderful or are we really wonderful’ - seems to be the theme of most surveys (for reasons stated above I can’t be sure about this one).

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I didn’t get much beyond the greengrocer’s apostrophe.

Literally. I couldn’t answer the first question - asking which of a number of activities I had participated in recently - because there was no option to answer “none of the above”.

And yet, as a longstanding Gold Member, I feel vaguely that the RYA - whilst imperfect - would be missed by many were it to close its doors.

The survey very much focuses on current participation. However, if you picked one option which you have participated in, later questions ask about barriers to participation.

It is an awkward survey and one does need to read the preamble at the start and proceeding each question. It’s not set up for speed reading and rapid box ticking.

I am not sure how they advertised this. It popped up on my Facebook feed for RYA, not RYA Scotland, or any of the other RYA interest groups I am a member of, nor by email.

I have long thought that the RYA are not good at communicating. I am an active member, various accreditations, but long suffer from their poor communication processes. Many others express the same frustrations.

 

[Mark-1]

Maybe the survey questions are a bit too general, and as you say, quite a few families will have a cruiser, a few sailing dinghies, some windsurfers, paddleboards and a foiler-

What would you ask?

Yeah, I tend to be sympathetic to survey writers, it's not easy. I just try to tell them what I think they want to know, even if it hurts my head a bit.

Looking back there seemed to be a lot of questions (using different turns of phrase) about sailing and mental health, which perhaps supports the poster who wondered if it's about building a case for some government/lottery funding.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Engaging with nature is now identified as severely lacking in the UK. The health benefits through engaging with nature are well known and documented.. Recently this has been discussed in various media. The 1980’s experienced a significant expansion of sail training as a therapy through various regional councils and charitable organisations. It sort of then all stopped through the 90’s. Today both the OYT and Ellen MacArthur trusts are leading this as well as such organisations as Care Afloat, and Autism on The Water.

It would not surprise me if the RYA started to focus on the positive health benifits of sailing as a way to attract and increase participation. I don’t think racing does that. In fact, it is a barrier for various reasons, actual and perceived. However, that is just a guess, no idea if the RYA are thinking or wondering if “sailing saves” or the therapeutic benefits of nature via sailing.

My advise is to just to complete the survey, honestly as you see it and offer comments as you desire. Also include the additional questions towards the end, which you can choose to not complete towards the end.

 

[RobbieW]

...I am not sure how they advertised this. It popped up on my Facebook feed for RYA, not RYA Scotland, or any of the other RYA interest groups I am a member of, nor by email.

I have long thought that the RYA are not good at communicating. I am an active member, various accreditations, but long suffer from their poor communication processes. Many others express the same frustrations.

It is in the current copy of RYA Members News which I received as an email yesterday. I think you have to elect to receive it, perhaps through Log In. There may be a selection in the club area as well, that where I think I've elected which material to get.

 

[ylop]

‘Are we wonderful or are we really wonderful’ - seems to be the theme of most surveys (for reasons stated above I can’t be sure about this one).

Maybe you should tick the “other” box on the opening question, and then you can see the rest of the questions. I don’t think it’s particularly leading.

 

[Goldie]

IMHO, the RYA should stick to being the Governing Body of UK Watersports. Cruising is NOT a sport IMHO, so should be outside their remit.

Silly me, I thought RYA stood for Royal YACHTING Association…

 

[lustyd]

Literally. I couldn’t answer the first question - asking which of a number of activities I had participated in recently - because there was no option to answer “none of the above”.

I got further, but then hit a whole set of questions assuming I’m part of a club. I genuinely can’t see a reason cruising sailors would be in a club. Racing I understand, training maybe, but cruising doesn’t really benefit from club membership as far as I can tell.