RYA sail qualification- does it also cover power?

[greeny]

Yes !

Travelling at 4-6knots on a yacht let's you do lots of stuff with a chart and plotters and stuff.

Now do that travelling at 30kts in the dark on the open deck of a RIB...

Doubt many people do that except for the various authorities and drugrunners. I would consider it reckless in normal circumstances and probably not covered or condoned in the training / exam. Or am I wrong? I did my yachtmaster and other certs many years ago. Maybe It's changed?

 

[capnsensible]

It's not 'reckless' if you have been trained to operate fast craft.......and abide by what you have been taught. I quite often use a friend's fast boat at 25 knots and I've coached him how to drive it safely.

 

[Kelpie]

Doubt many people do that except for the various authorities and drugrunners. I would consider it reckless in normal circumstances and probably not covered or condoned in the training / exam. Or am I wrong? I did my yachtmaster and other certs many years ago. Maybe It's changed?

I've done ~24kts on a RIB overnight on the way back from St Kilda, after dropping off a party of tourists.
No drugs involved (although some stugeron would have been useful on some of those trips).

 

[Mark-1]

I've done ~24kts on a RIB overnight on the way back from St Kilda, after dropping off a party of tourists.
No drugs involved (although some stugeron would have been useful on some of those trips).

I did 40mph in a borrowed RIB 10 years or so ago on a flat sea, that felt really fast. I recently something like 20knots for a short period of time in a club RIB.

I'd guess 40mph is very far from unusual and 20kts didn't feel fast at all so I'd guess it's pretty much typical.

Why do some RIBs have a log in MPH?

 

[ylop]

Why do some RIBs have a log in MPH?

I suspect the same reason many cyclists describe speed in kph! Which is two fold: 1. The equipment is imported (cyclists from the continent where Km are default units of measurement; and fast powerboats where the yanks prevail and use miles;
2. The value “sounds” bigger, therefore more impressive what bragging to friends!

 

[greeny]

Love how these threads drift. It's like a conversation in the bar.

 

[billskip]

Love how these threads drift. It's like a conversation in the bar.

Yep the more you drink the more you forget the original conversation.....

 

[Sea Change]

Bumping this topic, and putting a slight twist on the original question, which is that I'm now in the UK, rather than the Caribbean.

I currently have DS power and sail, I've done the commercial endorsement courses, and I've also completed the Advanced Powerboat course.

I've got 10,000+ nm sailing miles under my belt including an ocean crossing as skipper.

I worked for about six years driving commercial powerboats.

I want to move up to YM standard in both power and sail.

It's no longer possible to do a simple conversion between the two, sadly.

What's my best way of obtaining both tickets this winter, with minimal wasted time/effort/money? I'm based in the north of Scotland but obviously would travel anywhere in the UK if it made sense.

 

[Mark-1]

Bumping this topic, and putting a slight twist on the original question, which is that I'm now in the UK, rather than the Caribbean.

I currently have DS power and sail, I've done the commercial endorsement courses, and I've also completed the Advanced Powerboat course.

I've got 10,000+ nm sailing miles under my belt including an ocean crossing as skipper.

I worked for about six years driving commercial powerboats.

I want to move up to YM standard in both power and sail.

It's no longer possible to do a simple conversion between the two, sadly.

What's my best way of obtaining both tickets this winter, with minimal wasted time/effort/money? I'm based in the north of Scotland but obviously would travel anywhere in the UK if it made sense.

I don't know but having recently phoned around for a Sail ICC I found Sailing School, Charters, & Events | Prometheus Sailing - Prometheus Sailing to be unique among sailing schools for providing accurate succinct answers devoid of BS. (Maybe I caught the others on a bad day.)

So I'd start by calling them and seeing what they say.

FWIW I was slightly surprised to find there's actually less sail tests going on over winter rather than more. I'd have thought people would want to do sailing quals in winter so as not interfere with 'normal' sailing and also I'd have thought "lots of darkness" would be a very desirable feature for this kind of thing.

 

[capnsensible]

Bumping this topic, and putting a slight twist on the original question, which is that I'm now in the UK, rather than the Caribbean.

I currently have DS power and sail, I've done the commercial endorsement courses, and I've also completed the Advanced Powerboat course.

I've got 10,000+ nm sailing miles under my belt including an ocean crossing as skipper.

I worked for about six years driving commercial powerboats.

I want to move up to YM standard in both power and sail.

It's no longer possible to do a simple conversion between the two, sadly.

What's my best way of obtaining both tickets this winter, with minimal wasted time/effort/money? I'm based in the north of Scotland but obviously would travel anywhere in the UK if it made sense.

You may find a call to RYA training will help with the best advice. They actually know what they are talking about!

Sadly, here, all you will get is guesses.

 

[wonkywinch]

Sadly, here, all you will get is guesses.

Or "when I was a lad" versions

 

[dunedin]

….

What's my best way of obtaining both tickets this winter, with minimal wasted time/effort/money? I'm based in the north of Scotland but obviously would travel anywhere in the UK if it made sense.

As well as discussing direct with RYA, which is very sensible advice, might be worth speaking to one or more of the Largs based training schools. They may be able to sort you out, and a bit closer than the South coast based schools.

 

[ylop]

As well as discussing direct with RYA, which is very sensible advice, might be worth speaking to one or more of the Largs based training schools. They may be able to sort you out, and a bit closer than the South coast based schools.

There's not many places in the Clyde doing both Power and Sail (at YM level) under one roof.

FWIW I was slightly surprised to find there's actually less sail tests going on over winter rather than more. I'd have thought people would want to do sailing quals in winter so as not interfere with 'normal' sailing and also I'd have thought "lots of darkness" would be a very desirable feature for this kind of thing.

I guess it depends on whether people following training pathways have already got a "normal" sailing routine or see the training/quals as part of their normal sailing.

 

[Sea Change]

I've contacted them RYA, let's see what they suggest.

Re time off year, I was caught out before when I wanted to do Advanced Powerboat in the middle of summer, and was unable to do it this far north because of the lack of night time hours available.

 

[billskip]

I've contacted them RYA, let's see what they suggest.

Now I may possibly be wrong...but ..maybe you should think a little about your future residency....
I am now a Spanish resident, as far as I am aware my RYA and ICC are completely invalid in Spanish waters.

 

[Sea Change]

Now I may possibly be wrong...but ..maybe you should think a little about your future residency....
I am now a Spanish resident, as far as I am aware my RYA and ICC are completely invalid in Spanish waters.

Not a problem, I am and have always been a UK resident. With a kid soon to enter secondary school I have no immediate plans to uproot to another country on a permanent basis.

 

[Jmacd]

I understand at a basic level there is a difference. Particularly from my perspective having started out on power boats. I would have thought the additional learning curve required for sails makes sense. For power, well my sailboat has a motor over 10 hp requiring me to actually get an pleasure boat operator card .
As it happens I have several sailing certificates. None of which mean anything.
Rough guess 80% to 90% of the knowledge required being transferable.
The knowledge required is still not going to be 100% transferable to all vessels. Some stuff is vessel specific.
Being recently retired. It occured to me sailing or boating might be a part time pleasant pastime.
Most small vessel opportunities being powerboats of some variety.
Navigation? most people of my vintage learned through "Power Squadron course" a local club night class. It's the same basic stuff. Power or Sail
Powerboat Sailboat? Mhee
The surprise here, reading this thread.
This includes the Yachtmaster.
Presumably mostly done on the Solent in a 40 ish ft Sailboat. I can understand the practicality of limiting a power boat YM to powerboats unless also examined on a sailboat re sail specific items.
None of the advertised Yachtmaster course, from recognised sailing schools. I have looked at have made this difference clear.
According to this thread the Yachtmaster comes in two seperate varieties, Sail and Power. Not interchangeable.
So my question becomes, Why would someone hoping to find work on a "superyacht" bother with a YM if its not valid on powerboats?
Is the obvious route to finding work as a Yachtmaster to just stick with the powerboat route?
I really can't comprehend why anyone who could pass a Yachtmaster on a sailboat could not also act as Master of a similar size powerboat.
I would wonder about anyone passing an exam on a 7m vessel. Jumping of the pier onto a 24m vessel a skipper, power or sail.
Getting hired and gaining experience, a different story. Applies equally well I would have thought.

I didn't believe this. So I went and checked. According to RYA website. certainly appears to be the case. The only consolation a 50% reduction in the and days required milage for the second YM Offshore. If you have a current YM Offshore.
I presume this means a Commercially endorsed. YM Offshore "Sail".
Is not valid as a certificate for use on a powerboat. Quite a surprise. WTF.
The YM Ocean remains a mystery to me.
I had not looked at any of this since pre covid. So Things may have changed. I think the 50 days is "new".
So I looked up YM Off shore course. Checked 3 different English south coast sailing schools. 2 in the Solent. One in Plymouth.
I won't name since I am suggesting they are being a bit dishonest. At least misleading.
All three are advertising 5 day Yachtmaster Offshore prep course with 2 day exam. As your start to a commercial without any mention it is sail only. Although the Plymouth one does have a link to the RYA.

So you may well find out after the fact. Your nice new YM Offshore is not valid for the job you were contemplating and you will have to take virtually the same course again on a powerboat.
Presumably older YM's don't have this problem.
Do RYA instructors and examiners have to be specifically power and or sail?

[td]Documented minimum sea time(1) completed on a seagoing sailing or motor yacht (as appropriate) in the last 10 years:

• 50 days at sea on yachts up to 500gt(2) which may be reduced to 25 days if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence(3) in another discipline.
• 5 days as skipper on vessels less than 24m LOA, which may be reduced to 3 days if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence(3);
• 2500 miles on yachts up to 500gt(2), which may be reduced to 1250 miles if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence(3);
• 5 passages over 60 miles long, which must include 2 overnight passages and 2 as skipper, which may be reduced to 3 passages  including 1 overnight and 1 as skipper if the candidate already holds an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence(3).

See: Information on qualifying passages
(1)At least half the qualifying sea time should be gained in tidal waters and on vessels less than 24m LOA, and all seatime must be on vessels of the same discipline as the exam to be taken, i.e. sail or power.
(2)Contact training@rya.org.uk if your sea time is on a yacht greater than 24m and 500gt.
(3)For example, an RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Sail wishing to be examined for RYA Yachtmaster Offshore Power [/td] [td]Form of exam [/td]
[td]Practical[/td]

 

[ylop]

According to this thread the Yachtmaster comes in two seperate varieties, Sail and Power. Not interchangeable.
So my question becomes, Why would someone hoping to find work on a "superyacht" bother with a YM if its not valid on powerboats?
Is the obvious route to finding work as a Yachtmaster to just stick with the powerboat route?

Why did you assume that the only people doing YM qualification were intending to master super yachts?

Skippered yacht charter (right up to tall ships and even superyachts with sails) are potential destinations for commercially endorsed YM (Sail).

YM(Power) opens not just the luxury powerboat market but various small cargo vessels etc.

Checked 3 different English south coast sailing schools. 2 in the Solent. One in Plymouth.
I won't name since I am suggesting they are being a bit dishonest. At least misleading.
All three are advertising 5 day Yachtmaster Offshore prep course with 2 day exam. As your start to a commercial without any mention it is sail only. Although the Plymouth one does have a link to the RYA.

You need to have logged a lot of hours as a prerequisite to the course - if you’ve not understood the rules on type of vessel you also likely won’t have understood the size restrictions, what “skipper” means, and the distance requirements etc. However the 5 day prep course you refer to is intended to come at the end of a very long line of training and experience - from day 1 as a competent crew candidate onwards the distinction between sail and power is clear. Some schools offer one or the other. Some do both. If you want to skipper powerboats why would you sign up for a sailing course? At the entry level - the powerboat courses are shorter.

So you may well find out after the fact. Your nice new YM Offshore is not valid for the job you were contemplating and you will have to take virtually the same course again on a powerboat.

Anyone dumb enough to book the wrong course probably shouldn’t be trusted in charge of a vessel! I think it’s very unlikely that anyone gets to the start, never mind the end, of such a course and then discovers the difference - you’ve managed it and you aren’t even looking to pursue a career on boats!

Presumably older YM's don't have this problem.

The distinction has been in place since the 1970’s.

Do RYA instructors and examiners have to be specifically power and or sail?

Yes

 

[Sea Change]

So, according to the RYA themselves, power and sail are very much two different disciplines. You have to undertake separate exams for each. However the necessary pre-requisite miles and days at sea are approximately halved when assessing eligibility for the second exam.

So having thought about all of this, I'm thinking that the sensible way forward is to:
- brush up on my theory with a self study YM theory course (much cheaper than going away to spend a week in a classroom)
- do YM power prep and exam (looks like this will cost around £1100?)
- finally, go straight to the YM Sail exam. I'm less sure how much this will cost as most providers will be expecting you to do the prep course, or to provide your own boat (which I'm currently unable to do, as it's the wrong side of the Atlantic). Does anybody know of a school that might let me join them for the exam only? And with preferably a few hours to get used to their boat first!

 

[ylop]

- finally, go straight to the YM Sail exam. I'm less sure how much this will cost as most providers will be expecting you to do the prep course, or to provide your own boat (which I'm currently unable to do, as it's the wrong side of the Atlantic).

Are there examiners that side of the pond?
If I understand the YM exam correctly, then under sail you'll be asked to do a bunch of stuff you might not actually do very often (sailing onto a marina berth?). You happy doing them under exam conditions without any prep?