RYA relevant or dinosaur?

[Guest]

I suppose it is easy to criticise almost any mag which does not spend every page on the subject nearest to one's own heart. The RYA does its best to be all things to all sailors.
I will declare an interest here. I've been closely associated with the RYA as a Yachtmaster examiner for nearly 26 years. What a pity zefender did not mention (maybe he did not read) the Yachtmaster Goes Worldwide piece - a sure indication of its success as a training scheme. The readers letters were most interesting, especially Ed Whelan's reply to one of them.
To all those who witness, and then shoot their mouths off, some piece of bad seamanship by somebody holding a YM Certificate I issue a challenge. Bring your boat to Cornwall and I will "examine" you free of charge and lets see how you get on. No certificate on offer, though.
And finally, the RYA is not a Governing Body - it is the National Authority just like the FA is to football, the Hockey Association is to hockey, the RFU is to rugby, etc, etc.

 

[ccscott49]

Who says they are THE NATIONAL AUTHORITY! just that statement suims it all up! I believe yachtmaster is an excellent course, including the practical exam, its not that, that most people here are going on about, its the top heavy bueracratic nighmare that is the RYA today! I think you should read again, they are not having a go at you, dont take that personally. Do you think you could honestly be objective if somebody from here took up your challenge? (You would fail them on principle, your principles!) I doubt it somehow!

 

[Guest]

Re: The RYA is highly relevant and being hi-jacked

Charles,
One of the reasons I stopped being a member was because with the current structure in place the ordinary member cannot change it. In conversation with the RYA at the time I asked what would happen if the membership declined....from memory the reply went something like....because of the training arm we are always gaining more members than we lose....Cornishman's comments about those sounding off about the YM's are valid but....on a number of occaisions you hear people talk in watering holes about being a YM and it turns out they have completed the shore based course only. I do remember my own examination, I was exhausted at the end of it and until the debrief was unclear of what the result was going to be....luckily I had demonstrated enough of all the skills but was advised where it would be prudent to do more work...I got the phrase governing body because thats how an RYA employee described it to me....may it is what they would wish. Frankly all I do know is that the RYA does need to change, it does need to survive but I cannot think of any trigger event that will make it change. Sad really....

Pete

 

[Guest]

It is a long time ago now, but I believe the RYA was set up as the national authority. Every sport has one, as I explained before.
You tell me not to take it personally, and then say I could not be objective. I find this difficult to understand. I am not employed by the RYA, just one of many who do jobs such as YM examiner as our way of putting something back into the sport we have known and loved for a long time. I would be very happy to "examine" anybody at no charge using exactly the same examiner's guidelines I have been using for so many years.
This thread began with a snipe at the latest RYA News - and it was that which I tried to defend. As for bureaucratic nightmares, I agree with you that the whole thing is becoming top heavy, and it is up to its members to try and rectify the matter if enough of them feel that way. Resigning membership is no way to improve things. Other equally large organisations have managed it, so why not the membership of the RYA? And before you ask, Yes, I am getting too old. It is up to the younger Turks now.

 

[Mirelle]

YRA became RYA

The Yacht Racing Association re-labelled itself the Royal Yachting Association, quite a few years ago now.

Now, RACING does need a National Authority to codify and amend Rules, and so on.

I am not at all sure that CRUISING, a fundamentally anarchic sort of activity, in which we all do pretty much what we want to, when we want to, subject only to the requirements of common sense, courtesy and good seamanship, none of which need a National Authority to define them, needs a National Authority.

If you are proposing to set up the RYA as a National Authority with some sort of powers over CRUISING, then I, and many others will stop merely ignoring the RYA, and will become very hostile to it indeed.

Please be careful.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Not just sail racing and cruising

The RYA also 'claims' to speak for almost all recreational water users - swimmers, divers and anglers excepted.

Smokies, yotties, dinghies, powerboat racers, windsurfers, PWCs, Auntie Doris on a lilo.

 

[claymore]

Interesting twist to this thread coming in here. National Governing Body of the sport, like the BCU, BMC, etc in that it governs via the IYRU the rules (where rules apply). National Authority in that is is (or should be, or tries to be ) the voice of the sport - in all its variations off the theme. I suppose that its easy to define the rules with racing etc, amended in accordance with the Olympic cycle and the code by which competition is managed and run. Perhaps the cruising fraternity, in considering the rules to which they must adhere, regard the regulations for prevention fo collisions at sea as their rules and as these are not administered by the RYA, struggle to recognise the RYA as 'the authority.' When they first appeared on the scene, Windsurfers were considered 'unclubbable' and the RYA had to work very hard to get them to come under the umbrella. Perhaps a similar drive will be necessary to do the same to Cruising sailors. It's at this point that I wonder if it would be worth the effort, from the RYA's point of view, in that I don't see really what it would change. I only received my copy of the RYA news today and reading it in the light of comments within this thread, it did feel a bit remote and inwardly focussed.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Not just sail racing and cruising

Trouble is, they don't speak for all of us!

 

[ccscott49]

Re: The RYA is highly relevant and being hi-jacked

Because of the ICC they have us by the nuts, Why can't I get the qualifications without being a member, or can I? If I can then they will lose membership at an alarming rate!

 

[ccscott49]

This forum is ranting on about the RYA, if it was in touch with it's membership, you would have thought it might want to hear these views. But have we heard from anybody in real authority, no and unlikely to, they are out of touch! it's a pity, because they might learn something from this forum, number one the cruising fraternity, sail and power is pi....ed off with them!

 

[Guest]

I'm not surprised the magazine is "inwardly focussed". After all, it is called RYA Magazine and is meant to be news about the RYA. Remote, perhaps, but with such a large organisation it is hard to see how it could be more chummy.

 

[Guest]

Re: The RYA is highly relevant and being hi-jacked

You do not have to be a member in order to get the qualifications, some of the necessary paperwork may cost a little more and that is why many people join...

Pete

 

[ccscott49]

Re: The RYA is highly relevant and being hi-jacked

Thankyou for the info, I will now get my Yachtmaster, but I wont join! The theory I guess I will have to do a course, or can you take the exam and can I take the practical exam without the theory side? Sorry, I've just thought you might not know all this, I'd better ask a school or something. Thankyou again!

 

[jamesjermain]

They are listening

I can assure you the RYA, in the form of the permanent staff, are listening and are reading this threat. There are a number of reasons why there are no posts from them.

1) There are so many points raised it would be impossible to do so within a reasonable length - a complete history of the Association, plus justifications for the Yachtmaster syllabus, plus explanations of the RYA's relationship with government, plus an outline of all the aspects of boating it covers, plus reasons why it appears that racing gets a higher priority than other branches, plus an outline of all the unglamourous background work done for cruising, inland waters, enviromnent etc.

2) All the points rehearsed here have been raised before on this board (and have been noted at RYA headquarters).

3) Some of the points are well made. The RYA is conscious of some of its short-comings and is taking steps to improve. The statement by the new chairman in the report of the AGM is a case in point. He will be the subject of 'In the Hot Seat' in the Spring issue and I will be putting many of the points raised here to him then - so it's thank you from me!

Finally, it is a policy decision, made some time ago, not to get drawn into discussions on boating forums of any kind.

I sort of can get drawn in as a part time, freelance employee but, in accordance with my first point, I simply do not have the time or the knowledge to cover all the arguments raised.

I am not fishing for compliments (or critisisms) of the RYA MAgazine, but I fail to see how any member, who reads it, can fail to appreciate the enormous range of the RYAs activities, and the successes they achieve on behalf of all of you: yachtsmen, motor cruisers, powerboat racer, inland waterways users, windsurfers, dinghy racers, keelboat racers, Olympians, cadets, adults, seniors, beginners and old timers.

I can understand that non-members might not realise all that the Association covers and that is a problem it is addressing.

James Jermain
Consultant Editor
RYA Magazine



JJ

 

[Mirelle]

I am perfectly happy with the RYA...

| think they do a fine job for racing, the Olympics, whatever.

They don't seem to cost me any money - I know the various clubs that I belong to have to pay them something out of my subscriptions, but it cannot be much, and I don't notice it.

However, I do not want them speaking on my behalf to the MCA and to port authorities, unless they consult me.

They cannot consult me, in practice, but I am happy enough if they do what the CA says.

I most certainly do not want them setting themselves up as a National Authority and regulating my messing about in boats.

Any suggestion of the RYA taking up such a role, (perhaps through being invited to do so by the very underpaid, understaffed and overworked MCA, which has more than enough on its plate already) will cause a very noisy reaction on the part of a great many people, certainly including me!

What worries many of us is the perception that the RYA is gradually becoming a sort of regulatory body by stealth. if this perception is wrong, the RYA would do well to correct it.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: I am perfectly happy with the RYA...

Thank you, for all of us. You made the point I believe!

 

[jamesjermain]

Re: I am perfectly happy with the RYA...

You are completely wrong. The RYA is not, nor does it want to become, a regulatory body. A huge amount of its efforts are devoted to arguing the toss with Government against regulation. It has no intention of taking over duties from the MCA.

JJ

 

[ccscott49]

Re: I am perfectly happy with the RYA...

Are you sure about that, are you speaking for the upper echelons?

 

[Grehan]

RYA thread

Just a small, somewhat incidental, point . . .

What an excellent discussion this thread is. It may not be the ultimate in erudition, technical content, riposte, insult . . . usefulness, even! Not exactly a 'message of the month' either but it shows how fascinating and entertaining these internet Forums (YBW, BYM et al) can be.

I've got to admit my own interest in the RYA is at zero, if not slightly below but the "sound" of the discussion here is just great. I learnt something unlooked-for. [The C.A might be worth joining when I've got some spare dosh] And a thread with both Twister_Ken and JJ contributing is often a sign of some quality. Never met 'em mind you, probably absolute twits in real life. No offence, anyone else.

Quite the reverse. Well done folks. Appreciated.

How would this have happened, pre-internet?


PS
How come Shite is now considered 'acceptable' language, but Shit isn't?
Is this those bloody Liverpudlians taking over? Ghastly people. Sorry George; requiescat in pace.

 

[zefender]

Re: They are listening

Oh Gawd!! Me and my big mouth. No offence meant James.

But...
As they say, perception is all. Whatever the RYA is doing, and how it does it, there does seem to be a fair degree of negative sentiment. I agree that the Chairman's statement takes this on board as a 'challenge' for the future.
However, given that the organisation may be aware of these feelings (however representative they might be across the membership) it does run the risk of inflaming rather than dowsing to run a story about the international extension of RYA Yachtmaster with the headline "RYA Yachtmaster - the best in the world". Personally, I can't say whether it is. I got the theory qual few years back but not the practical (yet). But I bet some members choked on their Weetabix on reading it.

Isn't part of the problem that it might actually be trying to do too much and spreading itself too thinly? Perhaps the mag only reflects that.
(Burning with embarassment he walks quietly stage left ....)