RYA relevant or dinosaur?

[zefender]

Interesting to note that motor chaps are upset at the coverage of their sector by the RYA. I've just received the latest magazine too. I couldn't believe the odd priorities set. A whole double page spread was dedicated to flag etiquette (the important point about 'wearing', as opposed to 'flying' an ensign was truly fascinating etc etc) and written in a hugely patronising style.

There was also coverage of the AGM. But the coverage of this meeting was in such small type as to be barely readable. Compare that to a big colour picture and large font bio next to it about the new bigwig. I'm not sure whether a newer, less establishment campaigning group might better serve boating generally. It seems to be becoming tainted by the smell of money/grants, international expansion plans and increasingly anachronistic fogeyism. Why?

 

[ccscott49]

You've finished with the lobster pots then? I tend to agree with you, they do some/a lot of good, but it does seem to be a private gentlemans/womans club doesnt it! You are a member, but they would rather you just gave them the money, and stayed quiet! "What would you know, we are the experts, attitude" I think the member thing is so they can register for better tax concessions or am I being cynical? Probably!

 

[zefender]

Thought the lobster pots did quite well as a thread. Quite interesting divergence of opinion too! Maybe it'll run awhile yet.

The trouble is with voluntary organisations that they tend to begin to believe they are more important than they are. They give themselves lofty titles and have more committees than Tescos have bananas. There does seem to be a huge communication gap between the RYA organisation and its 'ordinary' members. I'm not really sure why I joined - felt it was the right thing to do. I think a newer, more flexible, younger, more fun, more campaigning organisation is needed. No job titles, no waste, no personal ambitions etc etc

 

[ccscott49]

Its all old farts in government and Brussels, maybe only old farts in the RYA can talk to them, by the way I'm an oldish fart, smelly too, before anyone answers!

 

[claymore]

I'm trying to imagine an alternative organisation rocking the National Governing Body so much that it gave up and went home - it would take a military coup.
For my bit - the RYA does just fine. I hold coaching qualifications which have kept me employed and which have assisted my career path - it employed me, it raised the funds to run the most successful Olympic Campaign of any. It is well structured efficiently and economically run and if it doesn't serve your interests, when points are raised, it listens and eventually acts. Not a dinosaur, its success in campaigning a whole range of issues on behalf of recreational water users is nothing short of phenomenal and our sport would be poorer if it did not exist. It is as you point out, a Voluntary Organisation and as such has to operate within a structure which is entirely transparent. The staff based at Eastleigh and around the country are excellent and the interests of the sport are safe in their hands. They in turn are supported by the committees, populated by members with a wealth of knowledge and experience which they give voluntarily and unselfishly in the interests of the sport. I wonder when people are being critical, just what improvements they would suggest that could be effectively implemented and why they don't actually do something about it by getting in touch with the RYA and getting their voice heard, instead of some mounting some rather pointless tirade against them.

 

[zefender]

I note you are talking as someone with a financial relationship - so your comments are taken in that light. I wasn't aware it was tirade - just an observation from a mere member. Yes, the Olympics were jolly good and I think we owe a debt of thanks to those in the poorest sector of the community who paid for it in the hope of getting themselves out of penury by winning a couple of million quid on the lottery.

 

[Twister_Ken]

One problem, preceived or real, with the RYA is that of lack of visible leadership on boaty issues. It maybe that they are beavering away behind closed doors in smokefilled rooms putting our p-o-v across to government, etc (or it may not). But if they are, we don't see it.

If they were to organise boaties to protest, over something like pot bobbers, or marina prices, or Crown estates policies on mooring fees, or whatever, by organising a protrest convoy up the Thames to parliament, accompanied by a chorus of foghorns, we would know they were doing it. As it is we scratch our heads and ask "What is the RYA for?"

My real bone of contention is with the Yachtmaster industry. There are so many training suppliers making money out of this so that it has become self-sustaining and is turning out lots of certificate-holders who have very poor seamanship skills. But because of the vested interests now involved and the livlihoods that depend on YM'ism its difficult to criticise it without getting motherhood and apple pie in response.

 

[ccscott49]

Oh! Wicked. I remember an instructor at an offshore survival training school having a go at me about the GMDSS sysytem, I said it shouldnt bee rammed down yachtsmaens' throats, as it was expensive and we had to do more courses, he tried to shout me down about this in front of the class, then he sai some such snide remark abou me be against yacht masters certificates, (I'm not) I finally found out, why he was so vehnement,(spelling) he runs a training school at findhorn, offering?? RYA courses! Of course people with a financial interest are right behind the RYA, human nature. Be careful who you attack, Zefender! A lot of people forget where the money comes from, for many things!

 

[tony_brighton]

Dont forget there is a professional bureaucracy employed at the RYA.

A major problem with the balance of coverage for me is that they have too much focus on the glamourous racing scene (guys in wetsuits on hobie cats/ expensive big boat class) and not enough on the silent majority (us lot).

 

[claymore]

Oh Dear.nm

x

 

[Guest]

Why I am no longer a member of the RYA

I was a member of the RYA for many years but a couple of years ago reviewed my membership and decided enough was enough. The reasons
o All those years ago the RYA did represent to government and others the views and needs of the average cruising yachtman both power & sail.
o The current organisation styles itself as the governing body...
o The current organisation does not represent the views of the average cruising yachtsman to goverment but rather appears to represent the views of Government to us.
o The current organisation is more interested in the glamour of the racing side of the house.
o The current organisation has a committee structure that is unwieldy and is very hard to express a view to.
o Prior to canceling my subscription I did invite them to reawaken my interest and tell me why I should renew. The reply I got was along the lines that I would get my subscription back in discounts, it was my duty to as they were the people who were consulted on boating issues.
I cancelled....

Wandering around the boat show last year I talked to some people on the Cruising Association stand and joined. They are consulted and do input the views of the cruising yachtsman. They are a different organisation to the RYA and a lot more expensive but they do represent me better.

I do believe that unless the RYA embarks a massive structual change like the dinos we will wake up one morning and they will not be there which will be a loss to us all.

Pete

 

[Twister_Ken]

That reflects the point I was trying to make (badly) further up the thread.

Although (ostensibly) the RYA is voluntary, working for the good of the water-user, etc., it supports an industry.

There are so many vested and vociferous interests in the Yachtmaster industry that the tail is now wagging the dog.

Getting anybody to take an objective look at Yachtmaster, how it is taught, what it achieves, and its relevance is very difficult.

 

[bryantee]

Surely, in all these bodies,its like the curates egg.I'm sure that other pastimes ,sports ,hobbies, like golf, diving ,scouting,womens institute,et.al have the same critisisms leveled at them. The RYA and C.A. do have some voice when changes and threats to our sport/hobby/ rear their head.Whether the interest in all areas of the sport are evenly applied is open to question.remember the sqeaking wheel gets the oil.I suspect the cruising side of the sport is pretty independent and keeps officialdom at arms length whenever possible.Overseas the Rya training system ,for good or bad, is regarded with respect.End of rant

 

[Jeremy_W]

Where will find such paragons of virtue?

People with no ambitions, for example? You want people with wide sailing experience, which is normally gained over a long period of time, but you don't want them to be old. You want the skills and expertise to lead a complex and wide ranging organisation "without waste" but not to be paid. People with those sorts of abilities are pretty rare and command high salaries which they then spend on nice yots.

No job titles - nice idea, but I felt it helpful to be known as "Magazine Editor" then "Publicity Officer" at the local yacht club. It told people exactly what I did. OK if my title was obscurantist like "Rear Vice Assistant Commodore" and only the cognoscenti knew what it meant then great change it! But I don't think any of the titles in the RYA are like that. It's yacht clubs that hang on to anachronistic titles.

Yes, it would be great to have Ellen, Ben Ainslie etc. on RYA committees as a publicity stunt but I fear that they would be bored rigid and would be away too often to be really effective members. That's life!

As for campaigning the best stuff is done very quietly. I'll give an example: Part of the reason why Liverpool had a yacht in the recent Clipper RTW Race is the long hard work by several Commodores of Liverpool Yacht Club to work with the City in the development of the Mersey River Festival. When our Commodore put the idea to the City Council, the well established working relationship was vital.

I think your criticisms are vague and your solutions idealistic. I'll make one firm suggestion:- dump the name "Royal Yachting Association" - Royal has negative connotations for most under-thirties while Yachting creates a snotty-yotty image that doesn't properly convey that the organisation is also for the windsurfer, Oppy sailor......... Any ideas for an alternative name?

 

[charles_reed]

The RYA is highly relevant and being hi-jacked

Some 15-18 months ago we had a very similar thread on this board.

On that occasion we had a number of RYA insiders posting whose off-the-record comments were very illuminating.

The staff of the RYA do an excellent job, our voluntary training system is admired and commented on favourably in both the States and mainland Europe.

However the various committees and elected "representatives" have been taken over by a self-perpetuating clique of establishment figures whose general political stance is somewhat to the right of Genghis Khan.
The comment made that the RYA don't represent the membership to the government but rather vice versa has more than a grain of truth in it.

In fact amongst their other apocryphal claims, that of representing ALL yotties to the government is far off the mark - they are regarded more as representing the racing side with the CA and RCC being seen as the voice of the cruising fraternity.

Someone once remarked that the RYA was rather like the old-fashioned closed shop union - it was there, you paid your dues, expected little from it and were seldom disappointed, because it had a comfortable opponential relationship with the management with whom it was in cahoots to ensure an easy life for the insiders.

It still has a very valuable role to play - but a majority of those in control aren't sailors, they're politico-professional committee members drawn from the ranks of the great and the good.
It will become more unrepresentative, dictatorial and sclerotic unless the rank-and-file members do something about it.

 

[brianhumber]

Why? Run by a lot of people looking for somewhere to impress other likeminded farts with equally sad egos.

 

[Mirelle]

Snap!

Made the same move, over twenty years ago, and have not regretted it at all. The CA does excellent work for the cruising yacht.

As for the RCC, I mentally at least dip to its burgee and look to it as an example of how things should be done!

 

[zefender]

Re: Where will find such paragons of virtue?

Elegantly put, and I agree with much of what you say. I wasn't suggesting that old people should be pensioned off the RYA but that old attitudes and the 'oldie' culture of the RYA should. I entirely accept that people with the kind of knowledge and experience to contribute are unlikely to be avid fans of Limp Bizkit. But there are hundreds of highly successfull (and well paid) visionaries about who do play a part in voluntary organisations, whether charitable or professional. They understand the importance of listening to those they are meant to serve. They are ambitious, but less for themselves, having achieved that, but ambitious enough to make changes and achieve something, something good.

The 'no job titles' thought was slightly tongue in cheek but intended to make the point that 'Commodor(ism)' is not helpful. A modern voluntary, campaigning, training organisation doesn't need miltary structures. There are plenty of businesses which run on a much flatter, meritocratic basis.

My main point is that I am unsure where the organisation is going and what it is aiming to do. Its new website, whilst much improved, gives no information about the purpose and aims of the RYA. If it is to increase the popularity of the sport, with an eye to safety via training, then that is perfectly clear. But I think it might need to loosen up a bit to appear 'more accessible' to non-sailors. On the website there is a FAQ page. There's about 40 questions and answers. Six of these are on flag etiquette, seven on Registration, ten on VAT and thirteen on ICC. There's not one about 'why should I take up boating?'

An earlier post descibed the RYA as the "Governing Body". What is that meant to mean? I didn't take up sailing to be governed by anyone, thank you.

I'd hate this post to be seen as vitriol against all of what RYA does and implying that the every person within it is somehow inept and rotten. The organisation is the problem, probably not the people.

I tend to agree about the name, though I think the likelihood of dispensing with 'Royal' is about as likely as young royals being educated at the local comprehensive. How about 'UK Boating Association', 'Afloat'? Hmmm....need a few coffees to get the creative juices going on that.

 

[ianwright]

Also Snap!

Me too. ex RYA, CA for twentyish years on and off.

IanW

Vertue 203, Patience

 

[ccscott49]

Re: Also Snap!

Me too, but not CA, Yet!