RYA Method for Making Fast to a Cleat

[pyiangou]

Hello

I would like to know the official RYA recommended method for making fast to a cleat. I believe it's a OXO without using a locking hitch. However, I'm still not sure on one thing.

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Is the first round turn always a FULL round turn?
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Thanks!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Yes.... so that you can slip the line when undoing without all the load coming on immediately which it would if you used an overlock...... and to avoid it binding up and becoming impossible to undo especially under load....

 

[pyiangou]

Thanks for the speedy response! I think I've got it now, but I hope you don't mind me double checking because I want to be 100% sure I do actually now know the RYA recommended method. So just to confirm, does the web page below describe it?

http://www.mum.edu/exss_dept/sailing_club/sail/knot1.html

Many thanks!!!

 

[alant]

'locking hitches'

Only used by Lorry drivers, MoBo's & dinghy sailors

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Yes!

 

[pyiangou]

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[lw395]

A locking hitch is a valuable tool when a line is lightly loaded and subject to alternating loading/unloading. Not a good idea when the rope will be highly loaded, although if the line is creeping enough to prevent you undoing the locking hitch, you didn't have enough turns on in the first place.
And the RYA method for making fast to a cleat could be said to be a bowline, as the making off of cleats will be done on board.

 

[bedouin]

I'm with you on this - if a locking turn gets so tight that you can't undo it then it has been under load so you didn't have enough turns on.

In spite of what RYA might say I use locking turns on mooring warps as I would rather the locking turn got so jammed that I had to cut the warp than it all came undone and the boat floated away.

 

[cliffordpope]

All assuming the cleat is an appropriate size for the rope. A small line round a big cleat can simply snake free regardless of the number of turns. Especially relevant if securing a tender to a large cleat normally intended for mooring ropes.

 

[lw395]

Yes tenders are great escapologists, especially after closing time. I normally let the crew cleat the tender then add a couple of hitches. But then you need to check that the line you've just cleated really was the painter!

 

[Athene V30]

Why not use a bowline (on a long painter) round the standing part of the cleat and leave the main cleat free for others to use? Your dinghy will float free allowing access to wall / pontoon too.

That way when you want to get your dinghy you can without having to untie everyone else!

 

[snooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes tenders are great escapologists, especially after closing time. I normally let the crew cleat the tender then add a couple of hitches. But then you need to check that the line you've just cleated really was the painter!

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you find out that the painter is securely attached to the yacht...but the other end has now come adrift from the tender!...Not that I would know how it feels to up anchor and chase after the blooming thing...No don't know how that feels at all, must be truly awful chasing after a tender in a crowed anchoridge at 1 in the morning after a lock-in in a cosy cornish pub /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[johnalison]

Blow the RYA; We always use a locking turn (after at least a round turn) and I've never had one tighten up on me. The advice dated from the days of natural fibre cordage which shrank when wet. Certainly never use up a shore cleat, as most of them now incorporate a loop to tie to.

 

[lw395]

Locking turns should be avoided when putting a chain on a cleat of course!

 

[bilbobaggins]

'Dotting the eyes and crossing the teas....' /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[pedant] It's worth noting - and copying - from the diagram in the above URL that the lead of the loaded line comes first to the furthest-away end of the cleat, making a shallow open angle. Thereafter, a full round turn, then a crossover, etc. - wherever the lead of the line and the fixing of the cleat permits.

This helps prevent locking up under load, and safe 'surging' of the load should that be needed. It helps.....[/pedant]

Then there's the Left-Handed Duntocher Ham Hitch and Two half Whatsits..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[mixmaster]

Everyone talks of the "RYA mathod" but is there really such a thing? From everything I read and hear and from my coastal skipper course I don't recall it being that pedantic. I was always under the impression the RYA was quite pragmatic and acknowledged that often there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[roly_voya]

As far as I was tought he RYA does not say don't use locking turns just that it is inappropriate where a line might need to be quickly released (eg halyards). It's perfectly acceptable for example for dock lines when leaving the boat.

 

[mixmaster]

So what's with all the debate?...and I meant "method".

 

[john_morris_uk]

Well I am an examiner for the RYA, but I don't speak for them so you will have to take my contribution in the spirit it is intended.

There is no official RYA way to put a line on a cleat. There are seamanlike ways and there are dodgy ways and there are adequate ways and there are bad way and there are good ways.

Many people argue that a locking turn has no place on boats above dinghy size. My feeling is that if you sleep easier in your bunk with locking turns on your mooring cleats, then its your choice.

For myself, I have never had a cleat made off with a round turn and one or two figure of eights followed by another round turn come undone. If the line is the right size for the cleat (and there's some leeway there) then the final turn locks the whole thing together in a very satisfactory way.

When I examine people, the two questions are 'is it safe?' and 'is it seamanlike?'

There isn't a definitve answer to your question, except by asking the questions above...

In answer to some of the other posters, I personally don't like bowlines on mooring lines as they can't be undone under pressure, but I'm not going to fail every person who moors that way. They just ought to understand that there inherent dangers in the method and make sure that the inboard end is easy to adjust.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Let's not forget that the RYA didn't invent *any* of this. Generations of seamen in working sail distilled all this, and the knowledge is made available to us today via deeply-experienced skippers and instructors, like J-M above.

Note the lack of rigid prescription...... So long as it works enough, and it's safe enough, it's good enough. But it can often be a little better....

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif