RYA calls to end the compulsory carriage of flares on leisure craft.

[Gary Fox]

Are flares still required by the French authorities?

On French flagged vessels, not for tourists.

 

[Sandy]

Are flares still required by the French authorities?

As far as I know they are and must be in date.

 

[Sandy]

On French flagged vessels, not for tourists.

Tell that to the Gendarmerie maritime as you hear the snap of marigolds ?

 

[RJJ]

I would liove to now if anyone has actually used a white flare. It seems to me that if you need to use a white flare the colregs probably that your duty to avoid a collision has replaced your requirement to stand on. if you put up a white flare and the ship hits you, you probably don't have a leg to stand on. I have to say that I have been tempted to use them when it is clear that ships are either ignoring there responsibility or not keeping watch, but never have.

If you weren't seen and the ship altered course towards you....

Ouzo springs to mind.

 

[glynd]

RTI race usually has a few calls from lifeboats to boats in distress 'please set off a flare' - otherwise it's needle in a haystack time!

 

[Stemar]

I've never used a flare in anger, just in a training session. I carry a BIG torch and I have used it to light up the bridge of a ship. Mind you, neither a steamer-scarer nor a flare will be any use unless there is someone a) on the bridge and b) awake and relatively sober. Nor is it going to help unless I'm keeping my eyes open too.

 

[Tranona]

i am surprised by some of the indignant reactions here - anybody would think that the proposal interferes with freedoms or imposes something that is not liked.

Go back a bit and ask some basic questions. First is why are flares compulsory on private yachts over 13.7m and not under? Why do they suddenly become essential once a boat exceeds an certain size? Absolutely no logic or rational reason why this should be the case - so why not remove the requirement when the logic dictates that if they are essential for over 13.7m then they should be compulsory for all private vessels that venture more than 3 miles from the coast (that is when the rules apply). Further logic then suggests that all the other compulsory equipment should apply to all private vessels that go further than 3 miles from the coast.

Next question is why are flares now considered of limited value and that the advantages such as they are may be outweighed by the disadvantages. The RYA argument (supported by many here) is that the value has been diminished because of all the superior methods of making contact that have come on the market resulting in the number of situations where flares might be valuable have become vanishingly small. Note that none of the new developments (radio, AIS, mobiles, EPIRBS, PLBS, torches, lasers etc) are compulsory on any private boat - and yet have been embraced enthusiastically (and arguably for some universally) by owners without any compulsion.

That leads to another, and perhaps most important question. If pyrotechnic flares did not exist who would want them? - or indeed who would bother to invent them? Just try to write advertising copy to promote them.

The reason flares exist is historic. They were an invention that fulfilled a real need as they were superior to what was then currently available. They still sell in diminishing numbers because they still appear on compulsory lists - but if these lists were drawn up from scratch and a justification sought for every item, I doubt they would make it to the final list. On the other hand, where people make their own decision, an increasing number are choosing NOT to add them to their list of essential equipment.

The argument that those who keep them on their list (race organisers etc) do so because they have superior knowledge, or know things others don't just does not stack up. In the case of the MCA list if flares are on the list then all the other superior methods and devices should be as well. Nobody is suggesting that, and in fact following logic again why is there a compulsory list at all?

 

[Stemar]

I can see no argument for flares within radio range of the shore; there are so many other ways of calling for help. Offshore, I could see an argument for making them compulsory on small boats, but not big ones, as the big ones are likely to have more ways - satphone, etc, of calling. The only argument I can see for it being the other way round is that the bigger boat is more likely to have experienced crew, who are less likely to be a danger to themselves and the vessel when using them.

 

[Gary Fox]

Tell that to the Gendarmerie maritime as you hear the snap of marigolds ?

Urban myth.

 

[michael_w]

I can see no argument for flares within radio range of the shore; there are so many other ways of calling for help. Offshore, I could see an argument for making them compulsory on small boats, but not big ones, as the big ones are likely to have more ways - satphone, etc, of calling. The only argument I can see for it being the other way round is that the bigger boat is more likely to have experienced crew, who are less likely to be a danger to themselves and the vessel when using them.

The rescue I was involved with was being coordinated by Solent Coastguard, and involved the casualty, 2 yachts, the Bembridge Lifeboat and the Pride of Cherbourg ferry. It all happened within a few miles of the shore. Yet, flares proved invaluable.

If you are ever in the same situation, be very careful of the drogue when manouevering by a liferaft.

 

[38mess]

I have to carry flares on my commercial boat, I have to renew them every three years and then go through the hassle of disposal. I would prefer to Carry the new battery light type emergency beacon, then I won't be invisible after the flares have burnt themselves out after a few minutes.

 

[Juan Twothree]

If your boat is full of water to the extent that you've lost all your electrics, you're out of range of a handheld VHF, and your mobile phone is either out of range or waterlogged...... What are your options?

Haven't got an EPIRB or PLB?

Then you'd better hope that someone spots your flares.

 

[Juan Twothree]

RTI race usually has a few calls from lifeboats to boats in distress 'please set off a flare' - otherwise it's needle in a haystack time!

Often a problem in the summer.

At night, I'll ask them to flash their nav lights on and off a few times.

 

[zoidberg]

Often a problem in the summer.

At night, I'll ask them to flash their nav lights on and off a few times.

Handheld xenon strobe beacon.

 

[Juan Twothree]

My main complaint about flares is the short time to the expiry date from new. I suspect they could make flares have a 10 year life if they wanted to and that would greatly help with the disposal problem as disposal would be less frequent.

Got called out last year to a yacht whose flares worked ok, despite having expired in 1983!
I pointed out to the skipper that his flares were older than most of the lifeboat crew who had come to assist him.

 

[Tranona]

Then you'd better hope that someone spots your flares.

I think that is the great weakness for making a first contact compared with alternatives. For every "my flare was seen" story there will be probably more "my flare was not seen" stories - although this number may be unknown for obvious reasons. However there is a case for the sorts of situations already mentioned when the need is for specific identification by a rescue craft, but that may also be achieved using a non pyrotechnic device.

Still, this thread is not about whether flares are effective or superior to alternatives, but whether carrying them should be compulsory on private vessels over 13.7m .

 

[SaltyC]

'Lack of reliability'? First lie.
'Lack of effectiveness'? Second lie.
Either the authors of this decree are totally ignorant, or there is a hidden agenda.

Unfortunately the RYA is no longer a members association, in chasing the money for Olympic classes the Government made it obligatory for government employees (all national bodies) to have control of ( BIG say) on the board.

 

[Gary Fox]

Handheld xenon strobe beacon.

Rule 36. No strobes.

 

[Sandy]

Urban myth.

Next time we are over I'll check again, we have friends who are retired Gendarmerie Maritime.

 

[graham]

Odd that strobe lights are not allowed but EPIRBS and PLBs have them.