RYA Beaufort wind scale. Interpretation?

[RunAgroundHard]

Tell the RYA. They do update the publications and welcome feedback.

 

[ylop]

steve - what are you trying to get out of it? I don't think that the text and how it applies to power/sail is that helpful anyway. All boats and crew are different and the descriptions on the columns to the left / wave heights etc are in open sea with a decent fetch etc. A F7 up a Scottish loch is going to still need serious sail reduction, but won't need the same reduction for a big rib if the fetch has kept the waves down. Equally nasty waves caused by shallow water or horrible wind over tide conditions / overfalls at headlands might push you down to displacement speeds in a powerboat long before a F6.

Saving people from having to take notes seems dubious to me. I take notes to commit things to memory. If I wrote it down I very rarely need to reread it. If someone else wrote it down I will have to reread it often.

I think the RYA recognises that different people have different learning styles - nothing to stop you taking notes or copying out the notes if that helps you learn. On the otherhand they've provided a consistent set of notes regardless of the instructor and perhaps managed to cram more in because they don't need to work at note taking speed. I don't think anyone gets examined with "the true wind is 38 knots, which sails should you have out" - the more important thing is the concept that as winds increase conditions get harder - sailing boats will want to reduce sail, and powerboats will have to slow down. The numbers are a bit abstract so its easier for people to relate to weather conditions that they've seen and white caps etc. At least, that's what I've always taken away from this sort of table. There's dozens of versions of this table around - one in almost every sailing book and all over the web. Their version is a bit naff, but it doesn't feel to me like its impeding students from understanding what they need to know.

I can't remember if they have a similar table for Sea State (douglas scale). I think most people coming to sailing from life ashore find that far harder to relate to because "moderate" actually means "bloody uncomfortable" in a lot of boats.

 

[Irish Rover]

I know many many Irish people, I was married to one, I lived in Dublin, I know they have a brilliant sense of humour....

You haven't answered my question.

 

[steveeasy]

Tell the RYA. They do update the publications and welcome feedback.

steve - what are you trying to get out of it? I don't think that the text and how it applies to power/sail is that helpful anyway. All boats and crew are different and the descriptions on the columns to the left / wave heights etc are in open sea with a decent fetch etc. A F7 up a Scottish loch is going to still need serious sail reduction, but won't need the same reduction for a big rib if the fetch has kept the waves down. Equally nasty waves caused by shallow water or horrible wind over tide conditions / overfalls at headlands might push you down to displacement speeds in a powerboat long before a F6.

I think the RYA recognises that different people have different learning styles - nothing to stop you taking notes or copying out the notes if that helps you learn. On the otherhand they've provided a consistent set of notes regardless of the instructor and perhaps managed to cram more in because they don't need to work at note taking speed. I don't think anyone gets examined with "the true wind is 38 knots, which sails should you have out" - the more important thing is the concept that as winds increase conditions get harder - sailing boats will want to reduce sail, and powerboats will have to slow down. The numbers are a bit abstract so its easier for people to relate to weather conditions that they've seen and white caps etc. At least, that's what I've always taken away from this sort of table. There's dozens of versions of this table around - one in almost every sailing book and all over the web. Their version is a bit naff, but it doesn't feel to me like its impeding students from understanding what they need to know.

I can't remember if they have a similar table for Sea State (douglas scale). I think most people coming to sailing from life ashore find that far harder to relate to because "moderate" actually means "bloody uncomfortable" in a lot of boats.

Im doing my Day Skipper Theory to gain a much wider knowledge and understanding of everything within the course. Its been very interesting and ive learnt some important points I did not fully understand. As far as the booklet is concerned and in particular I had no idea what was meant by Power= displacement speed, hence the post. I could not relate it to any possible rational until it was made clear to me. My mind does work slightly different to others but seriously the Beaufort scale is so simple and easy to understand, so adding a bit of random info relating to one type of vessel seamed sorry idiotic. Its a training aid and should be clear. its just an observation from one person, but one who with a reasonable understanding. Hey we are all different and our heads see things slightly differently. A great training aid?. well it depends if it supports the course, ive not used it much yet so cant comment fully.
Steveeasy

 

[capnsensible]

If you look at page 2 of your Exercises and course information booklet it tells you that the Day Skipper Sorebased Notes book is exactly that. It's provided as a basic reference and aide-memoire to support the subjects during the course.

It's not a text book. Further reading may be required by some people to get the topics. See Further reading. Bottom left.

Instructors always have to point this stuff out to classes as left to their own devices, students never bother reading the instructions. Like most of us with anything!!

Hope this helps and brings page 2 into your life!

 

[billskip]

You haven't answered my question.

I didn't realise it was obligatory, but if you really want an answer I would happy to say that maybe to some it is, and maybe to others it isn't...does that help?

 

[steveeasy]

If you look at page 2 of your Exercises and course information booklet it tells you that the Day Skipper Sorebased Notes book is exactly that. It's provided as a basic reference and aide-memoire to support the subjects during the course.

It's not a text book. Further reading may be required by some people to get the topics. See Further reading. Bottom left.

Instructors always have to point this stuff out to classes as left to their own devices, students never bother reading the instructions. Like most of us with anything!!

Hope this helps and brings page 2 into your life!

Noted.
ill take a look at some of the Ebooks, prefer hard copies which im sure are available to order online.

Steveeasy

 

[ylop]

Im doing my Day Skipper Theory to gain a much wider knowledge and understanding of everything within the course. Its been very interesting and ive learnt some important points I did not fully understand.

its a long time since I did mine (I think it was still called a correspondence course rather than e-learning!), but my daughter recently fell into a similar trap to you - she was trying to read the notes like a book rather than watch the lessons and refer back to the book to check something later. I think those little words might be really helpful for the inexperienced powerboater planning a passage though - it helps them realise that the forecast will give them a clue on how long a trip will take.

As far as the booklet is concerned and in particular I had no idea what was meant by Power= displacement speed, hence the post. I could not relate it to any possible rational until it was made clear to me. My mind does work slightly different to others but seriously the Beaufort scale is so simple and easy to understand, so adding a bit of random info relating to one type of vessel seamed sorry idiotic.

I suspect if you are purely a powerboater then understanding stuff about reefing is equally as bamboozling. I imagine the content in that section has not changed in a very long time and so Power=Displacement probably goes back to a time when very basic fonts etc were available and nobody has thought to update even replacing the = with an arrow would be clearer. I can't remember if it's in the course content but actually understanding how other boats "move" and "behave" is probably quite useful to predicting what their skippers will do in different scenarios. Powerboats understanding sailing boats tacking, sailors understanding powerboats and PWCs that can move and manouvre quickly - but also when that might not happen (like in a F6!). Both understanding heavy displacement boats which can't. Perhaps even clues for when sailors have "forgotten" to put their motoring cone up (and perhaps some explanation on why they might not do that). They feel like the sort of 'colour' an instructor can provide around the topic that might not make it into a (e)book or even videos.

 

[Irish Rover]

I didn't realise it was obligatory, but if you really want an answer I would happy to say that maybe to some it is, and maybe to others it isn't...does that help?

You still haven't answered my question. I wonder why?

 

[Wansworth]

Now would this have not been a much clearer example to aid interpretation. the booklet is a training aid and should be as informative as possible. clear and concise.
View attachment 161244


Steveeasy

Wot no Smacks?

 

[steveeasy]

its a long time since I did mine (I think it was still called a correspondence course rather than e-learning!), but my daughter recently fell into a similar trap to you - she was trying to read the notes like a book rather than watch the lessons and refer back to the book to check something later. I think those little words might be really helpful for the inexperienced powerboater planning a passage though - it helps them realise that the forecast will give them a clue on how long a trip will take.

I suspect if you are purely a powerboater then understanding stuff about reefing is equally as bamboozling. I imagine the content in that section has not changed in a very long time and so Power=Displacement probably goes back to a time when very basic fonts etc were available and nobody has thought to update even replacing the = with an arrow would be clearer. I can't remember if it's in the course content but actually understanding how other boats "move" and "behave" is probably quite useful to predicting what their skippers will do in different scenarios. Powerboats understanding sailing boats tacking, sailors understanding powerboats and PWCs that can move and manouvre quickly - but also when that might not happen (like in a F6!). Both understanding heavy displacement boats which can't. Perhaps even clues for when sailors have "forgotten" to put their motoring cone up (and perhaps some explanation on why they might not do that). They feel like the sort of 'colour' an instructor can provide around the topic that might not make it into a (e)book or even videos.

Powerboater, No thanks. Hence why power =displacement speed made no possible sense to me. To a powerboater yes. I nearly threw that cone away not long ago. Perhaps I should keep it handy now.

Steveeasy

 

[billskip]

You still haven't answered my question. I wonder why?

Why do you think ? Is it because any answer will only be accepted if it to your suitability? Why do you even ask the question?

 

[Biggles Wader]

Five minute argument or full half hour?

Why do you think ? Is it because any answer will only be accepted if it to your suitability? Why do you even ask the question?

You are having your collar felt by the humour police. Give up now there's no escape

 

[Irish Rover]

Why do you think ? Is it because any answer will only be accepted if it to your suitability? Why do you even ask the question?

It's a very straightforward and simple question. When you posted that comment, was it meant to be funny? Did you think it was funny? Did you think other people would find it funny. Did you consider the possibility that some might find it offensive, hurtful even?
I'm not hurt or offended, by the way. I couldn't give a monkey's. I've reached an age and stage in my life where I'm very comfortable with who I am, where I came from and where I'm at. I'm simply curious why someone would think it appropriate to post such an asinine and inappropriate response on a serious thread on which others were trying to make meaningful contributions.

 

[billskip]

It's a very straightforward and simple question. When you posted that comment, was it meant to be funny? Did you think it was funny? Did you think other people would find it funny. Did you consider the possibility that some might find it offensive, hurtful even?
I'm not hurt or offended, by the way. I couldn't give a monkey's. I've reached an age and stage in my life where I'm very comfortable with who I am, where I came from and where I'm at. I'm simply curious why someone would think it appropriate to post such an asinine and inappropriate response on a serious thread on which others were trying to make meaningful contributions.

First my apologies to op and others for the post that's caused this fred drift.
For Irish Rovers satisfaction my post was an offer of an alternate language as it was suggested it was not English, I suggested it may be Irish for no other reason than suggesting an alternative, however it seems Irish Rover has decided otherwise, and that for reasons known to him he has decided to create this alternative discussion.
I would strongly suggest Irish Rover that if you have a problem with my posts you put me on ignore or press the report button.
Once again my apologies.

 

[Irish Rover]

First my apologies to op and others for the post that's caused this fred drift.
For Irish Rovers satisfaction my post was an offer of an alternate language as it was suggested it was not English, I suggested it may be Irish for no other reason than suggesting an alternative, however it seems Irish Rover has decided otherwise, and that for reasons known to him he has decided to create this alternative discussion.
I would strongly suggest Irish Rover that if you have a problem with my posts you put me on ignore or press the report button.
Once again my apologies.

The dog ate my homework, sir.

 

[tillergirl]

Wot! F4 - Sail - reefed headsail! F5 - Sail - reefed mainsail! Is that for plastic boats? Reefed headsails at 11kts! 11kts! Wot is the world coming to (or in proper English as Steve prefers 'To where is the world going?' Certainly not very quickly.

 

[DFL1010]

Wot! F4 - Sail - reefed headsail! F5 - Sail - reefed mainsail! Is that for plastic boats? Reefed headsails at 11kts! 11kts! Wot is the world coming to (or in proper English as Steve prefers 'To where is the world going?' Certainly not very quickly.

Counterpoint - if you're not reefing until F5 then life's very painful sailing un under 10kts.

 

[steveeasy]

Wot! F4 - Sail - reefed headsail! F5 - Sail - reefed mainsail! Is that for plastic boats? Reefed headsails at 11kts! 11kts! Wot is the world coming to (or in proper English as Steve prefers 'To where is the world going?' Certainly not very quickly.

You may well be on the nail.

Steveeasy
.

 

[mjcoon]

Now would this have not been a much clearer example to aid interpretation. the booklet is a training aid and should be as informative as possible. clear and concise.
View attachment 161244


Steveeasy

What, nothing about blowing your cornflakes or salad overboard versus your porridge or lasagne?