RYA and the new Marine Bill
- Thread starter mandlmaunder
- Start date
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
You're right, of course.
But as my wife sometimes comments when I'm off on one of my crusades: 'The day you stop protesting/arguing is the day they bury you'.
All that's required for evil to triumph, is for good men to do/say nothing.
I'm sure I'll chill eventually - retirement's only a little over 13 months away.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Ah, right, so "free" in the sense of "Buy One, Get One Free", or "Free Delivery".
Bishop Terrorchoke
Well-Known Member
No, free in the sense that if you are a member they do not charge you for it.
BishopT
T
timbartlett
Guest
You have made it abundantly clear that it is your opinion that the Day Skipper certificate should be an examined certificate of competence, but repetition (even in bold face and capitals) does not make a misinformed opinion into fact.
The Day Skipper certificate is a course completion certificate.
It is not a certificate of competence, and it does not involve an exam.
To claim otherwise when every scrap of evidence is against you is simply ridiculous.
The ICC is a completely different thing (although, if you look at look at the application form, you will see that even there it refers to a Day Skipper practical course completion certificate)
If you look at the RYA website you will find that what we all call an ICC is really a United Nations Economic Commission for Europe Inland Transport Committee Resolution 40 International Certificate for Operators of Pleasure Craft, and that it is "documentary assurance from one government to another that the holder meets the levels of competence laid down in Resolution 40". The RYA is quite explicit that "It is NOT a qualification.
It may be deeply frustrating to you that you do not have the authority to withhold someone's Day Skipper certificate. To me, that seems a pretty poor justification for your obvious hatred of the RYA... but that's life.
Doug_Stormforce
Well-Known Member
It never ceases to amaze me how formites can take so much glee in putting down one of the few organizations that works for them. Maybe you don’t agree with everything they do but you can honesty be anti everything they do.
Anyway opinions aside lets correct some facts
Well maybe for you, but I own a Sea School and I’m pretty confident our Instructors teach sailing as a lifestyle choice, likewise if I was in it purely for the money I would have given up a long time ago, Yes I agree we are in business and have to have some sort of an income but I know Instructors and schools don’t do it for the money.
Can you name a country in continental Europe where the ICC or equivalent is cheaper?
First of all the RYA is not a private company, I would have hoped as a former Instructor you would have realized this. However more to the point ICCs can be issued by BSAC, BWS, IYT and the RYA- hardly a monopoly. You should really get your facts right before you come to the table ranting nonsense
Actually they only ask for a Dayskipper Practical but you are right, it is a bargain price.
Image having an existing Dayskipper certificate and not having to take another exam, course or assessment just because a foreign country says you need a license. Would you prefer they RYA created barriers for you or solved problems for you?
And before you ask Yes I do have an interest in what the RYA do, as does everyone on this forum.
Anyway opinions aside lets correct some facts
A great loss to us all I’m sure, so why so bitter, what happened, did not get your own way?
Well maybe for you, but I own a Sea School and I’m pretty confident our Instructors teach sailing as a lifestyle choice, likewise if I was in it purely for the money I would have given up a long time ago, Yes I agree we are in business and have to have some sort of an income but I know Instructors and schools don’t do it for the money.
Can you name a country in continental Europe where the ICC or equivalent is cheaper?
First of all the RYA is not a private company, I would have hoped as a former Instructor you would have realized this. However more to the point ICCs can be issued by BSAC, BWS, IYT and the RYA- hardly a monopoly. You should really get your facts right before you come to the table ranting nonsense
Actually they only ask for a Dayskipper Practical but you are right, it is a bargain price.
Image having an existing Dayskipper certificate and not having to take another exam, course or assessment just because a foreign country says you need a license. Would you prefer they RYA created barriers for you or solved problems for you?
And before you ask Yes I do have an interest in what the RYA do, as does everyone on this forum.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
And membership is free, is it?
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
According to the RYA website:
The Royal Yachting Association is a company limited by guarantee and is registered in England. Registered business number 878357.
Putting that number into the Companies House WebCheck system gives
Company Type: PRI/LBG/NSC (Private, Limited by guarantee, no share capital, use of 'Limited' exemption)
What sort of company did you think it was?
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Is The RYA Altruistic or Developing A Brand Franchising Strategy
They used to be a charity, right? Then who benefits from the profit and who would benefit if they started to Franchise out their brand to sailing schools. Lets face it the MCA approves the cruising competency schemes (and anyone can apply to have a scheme approved by the MCA) but everything else is entirely RYA owned. I am genuinely puzzled, should a private company allow a perception to exist that its a governing body, would the government put this service out to tender so a more efficient organisation can represent the boating community?
I am a lifelong member of the RYA (don't give a hoot about Royal) but now I am wondering what's the score here? Adam Smith efficiency or Gordon Gekko greed?
They used to be a charity, right? Then who benefits from the profit and who would benefit if they started to Franchise out their brand to sailing schools. Lets face it the MCA approves the cruising competency schemes (and anyone can apply to have a scheme approved by the MCA) but everything else is entirely RYA owned. I am genuinely puzzled, should a private company allow a perception to exist that its a governing body, would the government put this service out to tender so a more efficient organisation can represent the boating community?
I am a lifelong member of the RYA (don't give a hoot about Royal) but now I am wondering what's the score here? Adam Smith efficiency or Gordon Gekko greed?
Doug_Stormforce
Well-Known Member
Orbister
I take back the Private Company bit, you are right.
This got me thinking however, a lot of Clubs that are run by volunteers are these days incorporated. They have become companies for liability, tax and maybe other reasons. They should not however be compared with limited companies whose main purpose is to make a profit
I take back the Private Company bit, you are right.
This got me thinking however, a lot of Clubs that are run by volunteers are these days incorporated. They have become companies for liability, tax and maybe other reasons. They should not however be compared with limited companies whose main purpose is to make a profit
Brian blue bear
Well-Known Member
Even If the Company Doesn't Make a profit are there fat Cats at the top which cream away the profits with Extortionate Salaries,bonuses, expenses and Pensions,
I will of course be incredably happy and my faith will somewhat restored in my fellow Countryman if the top are also volunteers, I have had the incredably plesant experience of meeting the dedicated instructors,
No I would'nt Bishop because it smacks to much of politics & everything that I sail to get away from.
I don't & I'm sure that they would work just as well without Royal or Her Majesty in the title after all the French the Germans & the Americans seem to get by somehow.Do you really think the world would come to a grinding halt if we did not have the Royal family patronizing us?
T
timbartlett
Guest
Then be incredibly happy and have your faith in your countrymen restored!I will of course be incredably happy and my faith will somewhat restored in my fellow Countryman if the top are also volunteers, I have had the incredably plesant experience of meeting the dedicated instructors,
A "private company" merely means that its shares are not traded on the stock exchange.
In the case of a company limited by guarantee (which the RYA is) that is because there are no shares to trade. In that respect, the RYA is in exactly the same legal position as many (probably most) sailing clubs.
And the "fat cats" of the council and committees are unpaid -- which I suppose makes them "thin cats".
Of course the full time staff are paid, but none of the jobs I've seen advertised (including the recently appointed new CEO) were at what I would class as an "exorbitant" salary.
The "charity" situationAFAIK, is that Sailability and the Seamanship Foundation are charities, but I don't think the RYA itself is or has been. It is only in the past few years that it would have qualified to be one.
The "governing" body is nothing to do with "the government" and its significance is grossly exaggerated. Any kind of sport needs some organisation of some sort to set out the rules of competition, resolve disputes between clubs and competitors. (ETWA, for instance, is the English TiddleyWink Association, and is the governing body of Tiddleywinks., just as the FA is the governing body of football.) If you're not into sailing as a competive sport, then that particular aspect of the RYA doesn't impinge on your activities at all, any more that ETWA stops you playing tiddleywinks with your kids, or the FA stops you having a kick-around on the beach.
Royal I happen to be one of those who sees no reason why the rest of us should subsidise one particular family to live in luxury for no better reason than that their forebears were more successful robber barons than their contemporaries. But I really can't see that having "Royal" in the name of the RYA suggests any political connotation -- any more than it does in the case of the RAC, the RNLI, the RLSS, RoSPA, the RSPCA, the RSPCC, the RSPB, or the RHS, to name but a few. It's just a name. Can't we leave it at that?
T
timbartlett
Guest
Do you *demand* the right to leave your dinghy in a club dinghy park, without being a member?
So why do non members believe that they have a right to demand free services from the RYA?
And why should they expect the members who *do* pay a subscription to subsidise the services that they demand for free?
Bishop Terrorchoke
Well-Known Member
Question for Guapa
You say you taught up to Day Skipper level - that presumably means you were a Cruising Instructor. To reach the next stage and teach beyond that level you are required to become a Yachtmaster Instructor. Were you ever assessed for this and if so did you pass? I only ask because, like Doug Stormforce, I wonder why you are quite so negative about the RYA.
(Feel free to tell me that it is none of my business if you wish )
BishopT
You say you taught up to Day Skipper level - that presumably means you were a Cruising Instructor. To reach the next stage and teach beyond that level you are required to become a Yachtmaster Instructor. Were you ever assessed for this and if so did you pass? I only ask because, like Doug Stormforce, I wonder why you are quite so negative about the RYA.
(Feel free to tell me that it is none of my business if you wish
)BishopT
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about free?
Brian blue bear
Well-Known Member
What are you on about? What was the advertised salaries? fat cats of Councils? what have they to do with it? Government they will take thier cut, to suggest otherwise is comical... whats that all about Shares? Tiddlywinks? I say...Sorry speechless, where do royals come into it? I dont care If they have Royal endorsment or not, what free services? are you in the same world?Really, no I mean REALLY don't pay subscriptions on my behalf or subsidise me, If you do you really are daft, indeed tell them to leave me out of all thier freebees! nothing is free in this life!!!! I'll pay for what I require including qualifications invented by the RYA to make money. Really I don't mind but don't P**s on me and tell me It's raining. 
T
timbartlett
Guest
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, so I did. in a different context.
I don't think the RYA should do things for free, particularly in the case of issuing international qualifications, where they should charge a fair price for the work involved. This should not involve ripping off non-members as a punishment for not joining. Forty quid is four hours of clerical time, including on-costs ... how long does it take them to process a renewal?