RYA and the new Marine Bill

kristifercolumnbus said:
I'm still not convinced that the RYA is the way to go.Maybe if they could change that name to something more practical & down to earth.More in keeping with the modern day & age......
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but did'nt we fight a war against the Monarchy in order to get any freedoms at all?
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I'm surprised at you. After all the financial support for your adventures you received from King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella I would have thought you were a real (Spanish word for Royal!) royalist.
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/explore/sea-and-ships/facts/explorers-and-leaders/christopher-columbus
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but did'nt we fight a war against the Monarchy in order to get any freedoms at all?
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Don't remember hearing about that one... unless you mean the Civil War. And, if you do, I'm not at all certain that the average 17th century peasant would have regarded Cromwell as a great liberator of the people!
kristifercolumnbus said:
I'm still not convinced that the RYA is the way to go.Maybe if they could change that name to something more practical & down to earth.More in keeping with the modern day & age......
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I doubt whether you and I are very far apart in our feelings about monarchy.
But I belong to the RAC because they are very good at dealing with broken camper-vans (when the AA are worse than useless). I belong to the RIN because it interests me, I contribute to the RNLI because I feel I should, and I have been known to have the odd beer in the Royal Southern (as well as in several Royal Standards, Royal Oaks and the assorted arms and heads of several kings, queens, and princes.)
It's just a name.
 
Cornishman said:
I'm surprised at you. After all the financial support for your adventures you received from King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella I would have thought you were a real (Spanish word for Royal!) royalist.
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/explore/sea-and-ships/facts/explorers-and-leaders/christopher-columbus
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Naa that woz another geezer,I am my own man.Well at least as far as the State Social Security System & the Department for Work & Pensions will allow:)
Actually I bet old Columbus was just looking for a land of milk & honey then just as much as now.For many of us still unobtainable:(
 
timbartlett said:
Don't remember hearing about that one... unless you mean the Civil War. And, if you do, I'm not at all certain that the average 17th century peasant would have regarded Cromwell as a great liberator of the people!
I doubt whether you and I are very far apart in our feelings about monarchy.
But I belong to the RAC because they are very good at dealing with broken camper-vans (when the AA are worse than useless). I belong to the RIN because it interests me, I contribute to the RNLI because I feel I should, and I have been known to have the odd beer in the Royal Southern (as well as in several Royal Standards, Royal Oaks and the assorted arms and heads of several kings, queens, and princes.)
It's just a name.
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I don't think it is just a name when the Royal family own so much land & their influence can plainly be seen by the number of Lords & what have you sitting on various committees & occupying positions of power within the Political System.That really is stretching credibility to the limit.
It is corruption & it effects all of us.
90% of the land owned by 2% of the people & the profits of this Nation now being invested abroad.It won't be long before we all return to being surfs!:rolleyes:
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
I don't think it is just a name when the Royal family own so much land & their influence can plainly be seen by the number of Lords & what have you sitting on various committees & occupying positions of power within the Political System.That really is stretching credibility to the limit.
It is corruption & it effects all of us.
90% of the land owned by 2% of the people & the profits of this Nation now being invested abroad.It won't be long before we all return to being surfs!:rolleyes:
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Sorry, but why is any of this the RYA's fault?

Put it another way: suppose it followed the Royal Mail's example, and changed its name to Navisignia (or even the British Recreational Boating Association) tomorrow.
What would be achieved apart from wasting a lot of stationery?
 
At my local club...Henley Offshore Group, http://www.henleyoffshore.org/ we sat in committee earlier this year and debated why we should continue to pay a club annual membership of just under £100 to the RYA.
We could not justify why we should commit our club monies to the RYA.
We did feel that it may be in some of our members interests to be members of the RYA but we felt that best left to the individuals to join.
Instead we chose to commit any surplus funds after running the club and keeping a sensible balance to our finances, by contributing more to charities that need our help such as the Ellen Mcarthur Trust, RNLI etc...
S.
 
timbartlett said:
Sorry, but why is any of this the RYA's fault?

Put it another way: suppose it followed the Royal Mail's example, and changed its name to Navisignia (or even the British Recreational Boating Association) tomorrow.
What would be achieved apart from wasting a lot of stationery?
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It would smack less of patronage & privilege & would'nt alienate a fair number of us.
I just go sailing & muck about in an old boat I own.I really hav'nt got time for all that snobbery.Even if I could afford it.
 
Scotty_Twister said:
At my local club...Henley Offshore Group, http://www.henleyoffshore.org/ we sat in committee earlier this year and debated why we should continue to pay a club annual membership of just under £100 to the RYA.
We could not justify why we should commit our club monies to the RYA.
We did feel that it may be in some of our members interests to be members of the RYA but we felt that best left to the individuals to join.
Instead we chose to commit any surplus funds after running the club and keeping a sensible balance to our finances, by contributing more to charities that need our help such as the Ellen Mcarthur Trust, RNLI etc...
S.
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Obviously it is a decision for your club but I am aware of my own club Christchurch Sailing Club making quite extensive use of the advisory service of the RYA. Following on from the debate here I asked our Youth CoOrdinator who I know as had extensive dealings with the RYA what he thought of them, he was full of praise and certainly gave me the impression that much of the comment on here is unfounded and inaccurate.
 
Cornishman said:
I have a feeling in my water that should the RYA cease to be Royal it would alienate many more than your way round.
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On what grounds do you base that assumption?It looks like the Cruising Association also cater for peoples needs & maybe they are also standing up for peoples rights over this anchoring ban thing?They certainly look like a down to earth practical sort of organization.
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
On what grounds do you base that assumption?It looks like the Cruising Association also cater for peoples needs & maybe they are also standing up for peoples rights over this anchoring ban thing?They certainly look like a down to earth practical sort of organization.
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The RYA and CA are not remotely comparable, nor do they compete with each other (in fact, the CA is affiliated to the RYA), and I am certainly not knocking the CA but when it comes to being down-to-earth....

The CA has a purpose built waterside clubhouse, with a bar, catering facilities and accommodation in the exclusive London Docklands area.
The RYA has an office block in an industrial estate just outside Southampton. No bar, no accommodation, and catering courtesy of a visiting sandwich van

The CA subscription is £126 per year
The RYA subscription is £43 per year
 
timbartlett said:
The CA subscription is £126 per year
The RYA subscription is £43 per year
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I was a member of the CA for a few years. Initially it was, to be frank, because the students subscription included a copy of the handbook and cost less than the handbook. However I was sufficiently keen to rejoin two or three times. Then I visited the HQ. I have never been treated with such condescending snobbery by what was clearly a small clique of friends anywhere, ever. After three visits I gave up: they clearly did not want my type (young, new) and I in return didn't want them.

Anyone want to spring to their defence? Perhaps things have changed, or perhaps I was just unlucky - or oversensitive. The history and the facilities are excellent - it would be nice to hear that the people are (now) nice too.
 
timbartlett said:
The RYA and CA are not remotely comparable, nor do they compete with each other (in fact, the CA is affiliated to the RYA), and I am certainly not knocking the CA but when it comes to being down-to-earth....

The CA has a purpose built waterside clubhouse, with a bar, catering facilities and accommodation in the exclusive London Docklands area.
The RYA has an office block in an industrial estate just outside Southampton. No bar, no accommodation, and catering courtesy of a visiting sandwich van

The CA subscription is £126 per year
The RYA subscription is £43 per year
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Fair enough I have had no experience of the Cruising Association & only went on the post somebody added above which seemed pretty strait forward & down to earth.
I still don't understand Cornishman's post suggesting that if the RYA ceased to be Royal it would alienate many more people 'than my way around'.
Maybe that's because people are even more snobby than I presumed particularly in racing?Anyway I can't help thinking they have got their fingers in the pie of promoting qualifications & yachting & all the hype that goes with sailing that I try to avoid.
Give me a good down to earth club where you can mingle with other like minded individuals & talk about mooring sinkers/boaty problems & there is a bar with a few decent birds about & I may be tempted to shell out 40 odd quid membership :)
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
I still don't understand Cornishman's post suggesting that if the RYA ceased to be Royal it would alienate many more people 'than my way around'.
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It would since many are against change. I must say I think change for its own sake is to be resisted. Sailing can be rightly accused of sometimes of being class ridden but not always and not everywhere. I am told the RYA is not the stuffy blazered organisation you seem to perceive, maybe you should look beyond the name.

kristifercolumnbus said:
Give me a good down to earth club where you can mingle with other like minded individuals & talk about mooring sinkers/boaty problems & there is a bar with a few decent birds about & I may be tempted to shell out 40 odd quid membership
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Wouldn't we all. My club's not too bad though but sadly costs more than your budget.
 
orbister said:
I was a member of the CA for a few years. Initially it was, to be frank, because the students subscription included a copy of the handbook and cost less than the handbook. However I was sufficiently keen to rejoin two or three times. Then I visited the HQ. I have never been treated with such condescending snobbery by what was clearly a small clique of friends anywhere, ever. After three visits I gave up: they clearly did not want my type (young, new) and I in return didn't want them.

Anyone want to spring to their defence? Perhaps things have changed, or perhaps I was just unlucky - or oversensitive. The history and the facilities are excellent - it would be nice to hear that the people are (now) nice too.
Click to expand...
I'm not leaping to the CA's defence because I obviously cannot speak of the clique you had the misfortune to meet at the HQ at Limehouse. All I can write is that my wife and I have met splendid friendly cruising yachtsmen and women in many a foreign port, have enjoyed joining some of the Rallies they have organised, have accessed information from their website and publications, know of their Honorary Representatives in ports throughout the World and have read of their efforts on behalf of cruising yachtsmen and women through the pages of their magazine. Despite not living in the South East and being very rarely able to use "CA House" I still reckon it's worth being a member.

As written in a post above, the RYA and the CA are not in competition.I am also a member of the RYA and even a member of one of their Regional Committees, but from time to time feel the same frustrations as developed above.

I think the main problem is that since the McKinsey Report some years ago the RYA has become a far less democratic organisation and the Secretariat have become far too powerful and are not kept in check by the Council, who only meet 6 times a year, I believe, and other sub-committees.. Consequently phenominal efforts are put into training, winning medals in Olympics, etc, getting grants for the same, even running a hostel in Weymouth. My worry is that they do the PC correct things, but are wary of opposing too vigorously the fad of the moment for fear of losing their lucrative grants which pay their wages!

In particular there is one threat to the sport, which in my opinion the RYA does not realistically address. Nearly all inland dinghy clubs sail on reservoirs and have to lease and pay rent to either Water Cos., British Waterways, a local Council or a gravel company. There is pressure on all these to raise more revenue and unrealistic rents are demanded of Clubs, forcing up subscriptions, which, in turn, dissuades people from taking up the sport. Sometimes Clubs are forced off a water if a company can get a higher rent from another user (eg fishermen). Why no national publicity about the danger to the sport? Perhaps the RYA has become a bit of a Quango.
 
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