RYA and the new Marine Bill

Cornishman said:
I don't expect you to reach for your cheque book and sign up for membership well not immediately, but I hope that I have clarified any misunderstandings you might have had.
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Thanks for that measured response. I have no doubt that education before legislation is the best policy: my worry is that stressing the need for training too much could have unintended consequences.

I was hesitant, by the way, about using the phrase "RYA courses" because I appreciate that it does not run courses itself - many years ago I taught Day Skipper theory evening classes. I was using the term to cover the sale of materials for theory courses.

Fundamentally there will always be a conflict of interest when an organisation which provides training also campaigns about the need for training, however well intentioned it is.
 
A point for all those non joiners to ponder is that the fact that they do not have compulsory certification, compulsory registration, compulsory insurance, and possible even compulsory membership of the RYA is down to the existance of the RYA and the fact it is supported by many.

Now I an in no way suggesting that people have to join the RYA, that is clearly their choice and I will defend their right not to join, but to suggest it does nothing for them is not true. Now clearly they may not mange to keep every one happy all the time, in fact to do so would be impossible but I do feel that to suggest they serve no purpose for the sailor is distinctly unfair.
 
timbartlett said:
:D :D :D
That's the best joke I've heard for ages!
:D :D :D
Have you heard the one about the flying pigs?
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So what should we do just give up & wash our hands of everything?
You harp on about the RYA (along with lots of others of course) but they seem to just have accepted that our anchoring rites be seeded to "Finding Sanctuary" who then in turn have sub let them to faceless committees comprising mainly conservationists & other none elected committee members of whome yachtsmen are entirely absent.
If you just rely on the RYA then it looks to me like the battle is already over.
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
So what should we do just give up & wash our hands of everything?
You harp on about the RYA (along with lots of others of course) but they seem to just have accepted that our anchoring rites be seeded to "Finding Sanctuary" who then in turn have sub let them to faceless committees comprising mainly conservationists & other none elected committee members of whome yachtsmen are entirely absent.
If you just rely on the RYA then it looks to me like the battle is already over.
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Of course individually and through the RYA we should protest about what we don't like, but I think it's a big jump to think the battle is over and lost. The MCZs were inevitable and many of us actually support them, it is how they are implemented that will matter. I don't believe that opposing them outright would have got us anywhere but marginalized and ignored. The RYA should be a voice for reason and frankly having followed the various debates on here I wouldn't want the job of trying to reconcile the various views of the recreational water users. Particularly when the most strident in their criticism aren't prepared to join and don't trust them anyway. The RYA will inevitably be a significant voice in the arguments to come, I don't think they have so far just caved in but in fact have won significant concessions.
 
glashen said:
I bow to your optimism.:)

Actually, at the start of this year we did locally have an issue with a council's desire to close a water activities centre. I and many others wrote to our MP, who replied and questioned the council. This and a No.10 petition, pressure from the local press and the RYA, won the centre a reprieve and it was taken over by a local college vowing to continue their good work.

What made the council reconsider, who knows, probably a bit of all of the above, if you are unhappy with the powers that be, everything is worth a go! Of course recent history is littered with examples of our government taking no notice of what the public think, it still does no harm to let them know.

The RYA should defend our rights from a position of knowledge with good sense, not things always in evidence in government policy. If the RYA don't represent us our individual voices will count for a lot less.
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Don't quote me on the optimism front when it comes to MP's glashen:)
I think it is publicity that is much more likely to do the trick & on that note why is'nt the yachting press much more vocal?......you would think that they have got a vested interest in informing their readership about this threat to cruising:(
 
glashen said:
Of course individually and through the RYA we should protest about what we don't like, but I think it's a big jump to think the battle is over and lost. The MCZs were inevitable and many of us actually support them, it is how they are implemented that will matter. I don't believe that opposing them outright would have got us anywhere but marginalized and ignored. The RYA should be a voice for reason and frankly having followed the various debates on here I wouldn't want the job of trying to reconcile the various views of the recreational water users. Particularly when the most strident in their criticism aren't prepared to join and don't trust them anyway. The RYA will inevitably be a significant voice in the arguments to come, I don't think they have so far just caved in but in fact have won significant concessions.
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I hope your right glashen but I think nobody had the right to give away our anchoring rights & this is the start of a very slippery slope which should have been fought against right from the very start:mad:This just opens the door for all sorts of silly little pet projects.
 
kristifercolumnbus said:
I think nobody had the right to give away our anchoring rights & this is the start of a very slippery slope which should have been fought against right from the very start:mad:
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Nobody did "give away our anchoring rights": they were taken away from us. And although the RYA has been fighting this particular land-snatch for years, it was up against almost insurmountable odds -- particularly when so many of those it is fighting for are more worried about whether they have to pay £4.99 for a syllabus book than whether there is going to be any point leaving anchoring in the bloody syllabus when the next generation of yachtsmen probably won't be allowed to do anything other than follow defined "recreational traffic routes" from one "marine leisure facility" to the next -- subject to having the necessary registration certificate, and licence, of course, and having had their passage plan approved and their safety equipment checked.
 
Doug_Stormforce said:
Toad,
You repeatedly refer to the SSR /fine myth.
You now agree its not a myth.
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My opinion is that it's an urban myth. [1] The only reason the RYA propagate it is to scare people into joining the RYA. The more fake legislation they invent the more people will feel the need to join the RYA to fight new legislation. Clue: These are opinions not facts.

[1] I could be wrong my only evidence is that nobody can point at the legislation, say how much the fine is or explain where the exemption for tenders is. If the legislation existed it would be easy to find. So I conclude it doesn't exist. That opinion could be shown to be wrong at any minute. But it won't be! :-)

In fact, to quote Tim: Don't rely on someone else telling you what they think the law says. Or whatthey think it should say. Or what they want you to think it says. Read the official texts
 
timbartlett said:
Nobody did "give away our anchoring rights": they were taken away from us.
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Ok, I'm intrigued about the right to anchor. I'll admit, I remember nothing about it. What's changed, and when did it change?


timbartlett said:
so many of those it is fighting for are more worried about whether they have to pay £4.99 for a syllabus book than whether there is going to be any point leaving anchoring in the bloody syllabus
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To be fair to her she isn't worried at all. The RYA is a commercial organisation doing their best to turn a few shillings and and good luck to them. I only mentioned it because someone directly asked and I thought it was an example.
 
product n.an article or substance manufactured for sale

service an act of assisstance

syllabus n. the topics in a course of study or teaching

source oxford dictionary


It's 11 pages, actually.
 
I work for the RYA and would like to invite Toad of Toad Hall to come and visit HQ and discuss with the various departments his concerns. We do monitor forums but do not post(normally!) but there are so many inacuracies in so many threads here that could be sorted out by talking to us.

I will not reply to any posts after this as this is my offer.

As your Cruising grounds are Med, Scotland and South Coast please let me know when you are in the latter area. How do you take your tea.

Regards.................Andrew
 
AndrewN said:
I work for the RYA and would like to invite Toad of Toad Hall to come and visit HQ and discuss with the various departments his concerns. We do monitor forums but do not post(normally!) but there are so many inacuracies in so many threads here that could be sorted out by talking to us.

I will not reply to any posts after this as this is my offer.

As your Cruising grounds are Med, Scotland and South Coast please let me know when you are in the latter area. How do you take your tea.

Regards.................Andrew
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I don't really have any concerns about the RYA in general - my points were in answer to a specific question in this thread.

But I am *really* interested in the "fixed penalty" issue and I have a million other questions. Plus I'd like to just have a look round. Before Xmas would really suit me.
 
Did you get my PM with my contact details as it is not showing in my sent items?(I got yours!) If not please call RYA HQ tomorrow on 023 8060 4100, if I am in a meeting I will get back to you straight away.

Cheers...................Andrew
 
Andrew

I hope you and or Toad will report back here on the outcome of your meeting that is relevant to the key issues discussed here.

At a guess threads like this occur 3 or 4 times a year and always go round in the same circles! (Rather depressingly usually with the same people, although there are always new people who enter the fray!)
 
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