RYA and the new Marine Bill

[Brian blue bear]

RYA can't I get away from union type ****

Precisely. As soon as that came in the RYA would have a license to print money, but they are committed to opposing licensing or compulsory training. I don't even know any instructors or sailing schools who want or advocate compulsory licensing or training, even though they would obviously do very well out of it.

The cycnicism shown by some towards the RYA is both unwarranted and ungrateful. The sailing community as a whole has a lot to be thankful to the RYA for. You don't have to be a member for them to represent your interests, but you could refrain from knocking them.

BishopT

Back about 6 years ago I left a Job because it was a closed shop (unions for the younger members) because I refused to join the Union Union being supporters of New Labour, I will not stop sailing because members on this forum believe I am getting somthing for nothing from the RYA, Pathetic comments which suggest non members are getting something for nothing I was actually going to join since I have been involved in several RYA training Courses Now I know the type of people that are members I certainly will not! I am angry....the First sailors I have a dislike for, STRONG? maybe the people with the pathetic views are not sailors.

 

[Koeketiene]

As I understand it the RYA is against the introduction of compulsory licences/training etc. Surely if the RYA wanted to make money they would be pushing for it.

No, they wouldn't.
Because then you would have some sort of govt organisation run it - like the DVLA for driving licenses.

 

[Koeketiene]

Hear hear! There are too many people too quick to criticise this fine organisation while enjoying the benefits it wins for all of us, members or not.

List 5 that benefit all boaters, and I'll join.

 

[timbartlett]

...I will not stop sailing because members on this forum believe I am getting somthing for nothing from the RYA, Pathetic comments which suggest non members are getting something for nothing... maybe the people with the pathetic views are not sailors.

I'm genuinely puzzled by this. I don't see anything in this thread that suggests you should stop sailing. All anyone has asked is that non-members should stop knocking an organisation which costs them nothing and does them no harm.
It's a matter of fact, not opinion, that everyone who goes sailing or motorboating gets something from the RYA, whether they realise it or not. It may be that some of the things the RYA does isn't very valuable to you personally (cheap diesel, for instance, isn't worth anything if your boat has a petrol outboard), or that you choose not to take advantage of what is available.
And whilst I'm quite certain that some of the 100,000 members would dislike me just as much as I would probably dislike them, I find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum could really dislike all 34,000 of the cruising sailors who choose to belong.

List 5 that benefit all boaters, and I'll join.

As you've asked for five, I presume that means you have thought of four for yourself (because if you had thought of ten, you would be asking for eleven or twelve).
So why not tell us what those four are, and I will gladly add the fifth.

 

[Koeketiene]

As you've asked for five, I presume that means you have thought of four for yourself (because if you had thought of ten, you would be asking for eleven or twelve).
So why not tell us what those four are, and I will gladly add the fifth.

I haven't - just thought 5 would be good enough to warrant joining.

Your starter for ten (well 5)...

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

As you've asked for five, I presume that means you have thought of four for yourself (because if you had thought of ten, you would be asking for eleven or twelve).
So why not tell us what those four are, and I will gladly add the fifth.

Tim are you impartial? Or are you promoting a commercial organization that you have a business connection with?

 

[timbartlett]

Tim are you impartial? Or are you promoting a commercial organization that you have a business connection with?

Toad, we have been round this buoy many, many times before, and you know full well that the RYA has published a number of my books and that I do various other bits and pieces for it. I have never concealed that.
I held the same opinion of the RYA before I established any commercial relationship with it. And I would not have chosen to accept the RYA as a publisher if I did not have a favourable opinion of it.

 

[Kilter]

I held the same opinion of the RYA before I established any commercial relationship with it. And I would not have chosen to accept the RYA as a publisher if I did not have a favourable opinion of it.

I have no commercial relationship with the RYA other than I have given them some of my money in the past. I did not believe that it was value for money and that is one of the reasons I am no longer a member.

Accept that some of us, with good reason, see no point in supporting the RYA and that we do not believe that they represent our wishes or beliefs.

 

[Brian blue bear]

I'm genuinely puzzled by this. I don't see anything in this thread that suggests you should stop sailing. All anyone has asked is that non-members should stop knocking an organisation which costs them nothing and does them no harm.
It's a matter of fact, not opinion, that everyone who goes sailing or motorboating gets something from the RYA, whether they realise it or not. It may be that some of the things the RYA does isn't very valuable to you personally (cheap diesel, for instance, isn't worth anything if your boat has a petrol outboard), or that you choose not to take advantage of what is available.
And whilst I'm quite certain that some of the 100,000 members would dislike me just as much as I would probably dislike them, I find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum could really dislike all 34,000 of the cruising sailors who choose to belong.


As you've asked for five, I presume that means you have thought of four for yourself (because if you had thought of ten, you would be asking for eleven or twelve).
So why not tell us what those four are, and I will gladly add the fifth.

Really you will never understand i'll move on

 

[Brian blue bear]

34000

I'm genuinely puzzled by this. I don't see anything in this thread that suggests you should stop sailing. All anyone has asked is that non-members should stop knocking an organisation which costs them nothing and does them no harm.
It's a matter of fact, not opinion, that everyone who goes sailing or motorboating gets something from the RYA, whether they realise it or not. It may be that some of the things the RYA does isn't very valuable to you personally (cheap diesel, for instance, isn't worth anything if your boat has a petrol outboard), or that you choose not to take advantage of what is available.
And whilst I'm quite certain that some of the 100,000 members would dislike me just as much as I would probably dislike them, I find it hard to believe that anyone on this forum could really dislike all 34,000 of the cruising sailors who choose to belong.


As you've asked for five, I presume that means you have thought of four for yourself (because if you had thought of ten, you would be asking for eleven or twelve).
So why not tell us what those four are, and I will gladly add the fifth.

Glad you have chosen to speak for 34000 members there are probably 1 or 2 that do not agree with you,,,, is there? I counted 6 that defend your position a little less than 34000, bear in mind I would in January been added to your figures because I would have joined to saved money, sort of bribery don't you think?

 

[Bishop Terrorchoke]

Back about 6 years ago I left a Job because it was a closed shop (unions for the younger members) because I refused to join the Union Union being supporters of New Labour, I will not stop sailing because members on this forum believe I am getting somthing for nothing from the RYA, Pathetic comments which suggest non members are getting something for nothing I was actually going to join since I have been involved in several RYA training Courses Now I know the type of people that are members I certainly will not! I am angry....the First sailors I have a dislike for, STRONG? maybe the people with the pathetic views are not sailors.

What an extraordinary outburst. It doesn't seem to make any sense at all - not to me anyway. Why should you stop sailing? The RYA is as far as I am aware quite happy that non-members benefit from its actions as well, it doesn't want to force you to join anything you don't want to. Quite the opposite in fact, the RYA is a major voice against regulation of boating in this country.

No-one expects you to be grateful, or to join, or to even begin to appreciate the existence of the RYA, but for you to suddenly start ranting that you hate sailors who do choose to be members of the RYA - which is the only way I can interpret your remarks above - is beyond comprehension.

You seem to have misinterpreted my comments totally. Take a chill pill, relax, go sailing!


BishopT

 

[Ubergeekian]

No, they wouldn't.
Because then you would have some sort of govt organisation run it - like the DVLA for driving licenses.

There is a thread elsewhere about the ripoff charges the RYA make for reissuing ICCs.

Sorry, members, but ever since the MD plc debacle I have not trusted the RYA as far as I could throw a Seagull Silver Century.

 

[Mudplugger]

ICC

Renewed mine last year at no cost whatsoever......but then I'm happy to support an organisatioin that does actually attempt to represent the interests of the leisure sailor.

 

[timbartlett]

Accept that some of us, with good reason, see no point in supporting the RYA and that we do not believe that they represent our wishes or beliefs.

I happen to disagree with you,but we are both equally entitled to our opinions, so long as they are both based on facts.

Really you will never understand i'll move on

I'm certainly finding it difficult, but I'm still trying.

Glad you have chosen to speak for 34000 members...I counted 6 that defend your position

Sorry, please remind me: where did I claim to speak for 34,000 members?And could you tell me how you have managed to contact all of them to find out how many of them agree or disagree with me? You seem to be suggesting that the only ones who agree with me are the ones that have contributed to this thread -- an incredible coincidence!

bear in mind I would in January been added to your figures

not my figures!

I would have joined to saved money, sort of bribery don't you think

So when an organisation offers a service to a member that is worth more than its subscription, it is accused of bribery. Could you explain the difference between "bribery" and "good value" please?

 

[Moodyjim]

Well said Tim, the RYA also arrange standards and content of training without which there would be little on offer.Some framework is better than no framework and some guidance is better than none too. I also find BBB's rant difficult to understand from a language point of view as well as motive. MPlugger nicely puts Orbister back in his envelope it seems.

 

[DogWatch]

I happen to disagree with you,but we are both equally entitled to our opinions, so long as they are both based on facts.I'm certainly finding it difficult, but I'm still trying.Sorry, please remind me: where did I claim to speak for 34,000 members?And could you tell me how you have managed to contact all of them to find out how many of them agree or disagree with me? You seem to be suggesting that the only ones who agree with me are the ones that have contributed to this thread -- an incredible coincidence!not my figures! So when an organisation offers a service to a member that is worth more than its subscription, it is accused of bribery. Could you explain the difference between "bribery" and "good value" please?

They are buying votes, surely the answer can't be this simple or you wouln't have needed to ask.

 

[mandlmaunder]

The RYA is not for everyone but nothing is.
I have recently had reason to ask for a copy of my RYA Yacht Master Qualification and they have posted it/them to Belize for 20 pounds.
Not bad service.
The RYA qualifications for both power and sail are recognised around the world as a truly worth while and trustable endorsement of sailing ability.
If you have no urge to join, then don't, it is mostly a free world(some times).

If the RYA was not there to represent the sailing community then some other government organisation would be formed to fill the void and to implement what ever the government of the day thought was in the best interests of the government of the day.
At least this way there is some form of self regulation and a guiding hand when new proposals are being drawn up. (IMO)

 

[Babylon]

What role, if any, does the CA have?

The RYA is not for everyone but nothing is.

If the RYA was not there to represent the sailing community then some other government organisation would be formed to fill the void and to implement what ever the government of the day thought was in the best interests of the government of the day.
At least this way there is some form of self regulation and a guiding hand when new proposals are being drawn up. (IMO)

Well said.

I've come to recognise that any organisation like the RYA needs to be a very 'broad church' within which cruising is only a part. It is at least a relatively large and established body, with some experience in dealing with government and other parts of the establishment.

Whether or not the RYA represents cruising sailor's best interests is surely up to the pressure cruising sailors put on it. But if cruising sailors boycott the organisation altogether, its going to ignore their needs and opinions! And I don't exactly see government ministers and parliamentary subcommittee chairmen checking out the Scuttlebutt forum or subscribing to YM to appraise themselves of the nuances of our specialised activity before making law.

On another tack, does the Cruising Association aim to represent sailing in the same public way that the RYA does?

 

[Babylon]

We're always hearing about the RYA, but does the CA have any real influence?

On another tack, does the Cruising Association aim to represent sailing in the same public way that the RYA does?

Aha! Quote from the CA website:

RATS stands for ‘Regulations and Technical Services’ and is an executive Committee of the Cruising Association. Meetings are held monthly (on the second Tuesday of the month) at C.A. House, and are chaired by John Lansdell

The Committee has three working groups which focus on particular issues:

* Technical working group
* Environment working group
* Communications working group

The Committee’s work involves dealing with individuals or, more often, official bodies. We deal with a large number of international, national, parliamentary, trade, special interest or local groups all needing help, advice, comments or consultation on matters which involve the cruising boat user.

The remainder of the work done by the Committee involves projects in any area covered by it’s ‘Regulations and Technical Services’ brief. Examples include work on Codes of Conduct or Policy papers, production of Technical Questionnaires, writing articles for ‘Cruising’ or ‘Bulletin’ and developing material for the C.A. website.

Without information we in RATS cannot function effectively.

You can help fellow members of the Association and the wider yachting community by letting us know of anything, which may cause problems to us all. We are particularly interested in proposed legislation, planning enquiries, public consultations, introduction of new local regulations and experience of their use in practice. With that knowledge we can negotiate with those responsible and hopefully introduce sensible changes where it is necessary and practicable to do so. It is much easier to do this if we have early knowledge of potential problems. Please do not assume someone else will tell us. We should rather have too much information than miss something important. That goes for international, national and local matters, wherever you may hear of them, and as soon as possible.

We do have limited resources and have to prioritise our efforts, so please bear with us if we do not always have complete success in our endeavours on your behalf.

John Lansdell, Chair of RATS.

 

[Pye_End]

No, they wouldn't.
Because then you would have some sort of govt organisation run it - like the DVLA for driving licenses.

Maybe you are right, but I just cannot see the justification:

You have a massave training and testing organisation in existance: why duplicate this? From a cost point of view it makes no sense (not the government is always guaranteed to produce sane/efficient ideas!).

Even if they decided that testing went under state control (RYA already issue ICC, so not guaranteed), the lions share of the cost would be in the training - and that would largely fall on the RYA.